Jeffrey Tucker

Cover the kids’ ears! Hide their eyes! Shuffle the weak and frail from the room! A politician running for president has uttered a heresy that brings into question the holy grail of democratic politics. Romney has failed to pretend as if the country is one big happy family that uses our glorious voting system to discover ever better ways of governing ourselves.

Which is to say that Romney made a gaffe.

You know the definition of a political gaffe: inadvertent and unscripted truth. That’s what the supposed scandal of Romney’s off-the-cuff comments amounts to. He told potential donors an unvarnished truth that everyone knows but which is not part of the official civic creed of the land of the free:

“There are 47% of the people who will vote for the president, no matter what… All right, there are 47% who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what… These are people who pay no income tax.”

The implied model here is that modern democracy is a system that enables mass confiscation of wealth by some from others. And who can doubt it? In older monarchical systems, only a tiny elite was privileged to steal from everyone else, and if they stole too much, people would get angry and overthrow them.

Democracy solved the problem by granting everyone the privilege once reserved to elites. Now we can all steal from each other, and even from ourselves. This way, it is no longer clear who the enemy is. We don’t know whom to blame when things get bad. There is no one to overthrow but ourselves.

And things are indeed getting bad. As income falls, the household budget is ever more squeezed, we are living ever longer, and as the boomers retire, government benefits are soaring on autopilot.

Indeed, the 47% figure might be low. Other estimates put it closer to half. And it is rising. A smaller percentage of household income comes from wages than ever before. Food stamps, Medicaid, unemployment benefits, disability benefits, Social Security…Tthis stuff adds up and amounts to dependency.

He also helpfully noted that 47% do not pay income taxes. That doesn’t mean that they don’t pay tax. They are actually heavily taxed at the payroll level — a tax that pays into the very benefits that have made them dependent, a tax that has been more heavily raised under Republicans than Democrats. Everyone is taxed for every dollar earned and on the sale of nearly everything. But of course, neither party wants to talk about those taxes.

Also presumed in Romney’s talk: People vote their economic interest. Again, experience bears this out. If household economics don’t stack up, nothing else works. Politicians have limited time and money and need to get the biggest bang for their buck.

No, this is not writing off half the country, as the partisan pundits are saying. It is the mapping out of an electoral strategy based on the “median voter theorem.” This is the idea that elections are won not by the partisans or extremes on either side, but by the people in the middle. This is the business of politics. It is about finding and appealing to the interests of the median voter.

Shocking? If so, you have never bumped into a campaign consultant at a cocktail party. This is how they all talk and think. Indeed, this is how politics has worked for, oh, 200 or so years, and ever more so since the expansion of the franchise.

In the video, Romney goes on to say that his job is to appeal to the independent 5% who will turn the election in his direction. Notice that this outlook also “writes off” all the people that he already knows will vote for him. He is also giving himself a license to put their interests on the shelf as well, at least in rhetoric.

For this reason, anyone who dedicates himself or herself to getting Romney elected, as a means of protecting personal wealth from confiscation, will be sorely disappointed. Republicans as much as Democrats find ways to take what is yours.

And by the way, Obama thinks the same way. Obama will never convince voters who are already dedicated to Romney, and every single Obama adviser knows this. This is a fight for the remaining 5%. And what’s more, politics is business in another form. It is about giving and getting. Political parties represent interests, not ideas.

But oh, how precious is American political culture! We must not hear these things. We must never be permitted to hear what is true. Instead we have a Victorian sensibility about our civic religion. We sing the national anthem, say the pledge and reflect on 19th-century mythologies about our revered Founders, because, after all, we have the greatest system of government ever conceived, one so wonderful that it should be exported and imposed all over the world.

Or so we tell our youngsters. As adults, we should know the truth. Politics is a means of wealth redistribution. Electoral strategy is a race to the bottom. After all, it is emphatically not the case that Romney’s chosen constituents are free of dependency. Note that he is ramping up his imperial warmonger talk in recent days.

Every day, there is a new enemy that he accuses Obama of not slaying. And it’s not only about the military. It is about our trading partners. He has blasted the Obama administration for being soft on China.

What’s this about? It’s about reassuring his supportive pressure groups that he supports their interests. He will protect the American corporate class against foreign enemies who attempt to bypass the corporate oligarchs by selling cheap stuff to you and me. No, he won’t let that happen. And it is about reassuring the military-industrial complex that its subsidies will continue.

In fact, Romney represents a different class of dependents. Large banks. Financial institutions on the dole. Monied elites who live off cheap credit and infinite liquidity courtesy of the central bank.

Either way, the rest of us get looted. The election is about who controls that margin of loot that remains after the autopilot spending administered by the permanent class of bureaucrats is finished doling out its entitlements left and right.

In a way, I feel sorry for the bourgeoisie gathered in that small room to hear Romney’s talk. He wanted their money — a payment in exchange for his promise to protect their wealth from the grasping hoards. But he still wanted their money. Whether he will actually do this is another matter. And why should they have to pay at all?

There once was this idea called freedom. You keep what you earn. You don’t live off others. You mind your own business. Society works out its own problems without politicians, police, bureaucrats, and power elites running their lives.

Is what both Romney and Obama are doing a corruption of the idea of the political party? Ludwig von Mises, whose book Liberalism (a Laissez Faire Club selection) explains everything you need to know about democracy, says that this is precisely why political parties were founded. “All modern political parties and all modern party ideologies originated as a reaction on the part of special group interests fighting for a privileged status against liberalism.”

The best statement on this topic was framed by Frederic Bastiat: “The state is the great fictitious entity by which everyone seeks to live at the expense of everyone else.” In his book, The Law, Bastiat explains that the purpose of law is precisely to prevent the mutual looting that goes by the name democracy. But once property rights are no longer secure, political elites can plunder with impunity.

That’s why no truly independent minded person can depend on any political machine to protect his or her interests. To keep our liberty and property from their clutches is our job.

Regards,

Jeffrey Tucker
for The Daily Reckoning

Jeffrey Tucker

I'm executive editor of Laissez Faire Books and the proprietor of the Laissez Faire Club. I'm the author of two books in the field of economics and one on early music. My main professional work between 1985 and 2011 was with the MIses Institute but I've also worked with the Acton Institute and Mackinac Institute, as well as written thousands of published articles. My personal twitter account @jeffreyatucker FB is @jeffrey.albert.tucker Plain old email is tucker@lfb.org

  • John

    Here we go again – lumping Social Security recipients with the “no good” government dependents. Well I paid into Social Security starting at age 16 with an after school job – and paid until I was 66. That’s 50 years of paying in. Now I’m 70 and a “no good” dependent. This constant haranging on Social Security by Republicans like yourself makes me want to vote Democrat for the first time in my life. Am I entitled to the benefits – damn right. Just like anyone who paid into an insurance policy for 50 years and now wants to collect.

  • chowthen

    so Jeffrey are you voting for Obama? I need not to ask it’s very obvious that you are. You just said so above.

  • http://hexpainter.com hex

    “But once property rights are no longer secure, political elites can plunder with impunity.”

    If memory serves me the new QE3 Mr. Bernake came up with actually buys “Mortgage Backed Securities” to be held by the Fed.

    Does this mean there could be Government backed Foreclosures? Or should we call it eminent domain?

  • JRod

    I don’t believe it was a gaffe even though the media calls it one. I will decide for myself and can do without the media leading me. Joe Biden is a walking gaffe.

    John-

    I am not sure that SS was lumped into the figures. SS recipients ARE dependant on the government for a check. That doesn’t imply they are moochers. The point being how many citizens or ,ahem, others, are getting checks from the US government.

    Near as I can tell the 47% figure refers to the non-tax payers. I don’t think this figure is in dipute and it is my opinion these are the people that keep the IRS in business. How could it get any better for them? All the benefits of empire, the only requirements are to get an SUV and a hefty mortgage.

  • Jean

    Well expressed. The “non-”participation rate (running at close to to 40%) gives one of the best clues as to how much (the core) will vote for the socialists. The rest of the voters buy the brand and vote (or consume it) like their parents did.

    Ultimately there is destruction for all: Gresham’s Law – bad money drives out good or rather bad drives out good!

    Romney’s right, but how much tax does he evade?.

  • i’mWithYou.John! #1

    The Mormons are highly organized around the web!

    Much of the garbage i see entitled “The Truth About…,” is just Neocon wing-nut pandering.

    The Neocon money is hitting business blogs big-time; propaganda like this is the result.

    The author isn’t sure what his candidate “lumped in,” but he can still call retired people names they don’t deserve.

    You see, the candidate’s actual words and meaning are not relevant to the propagandist; his ‘point’ is about something else, entirely.

    Romney knows the elderly will not vote for him; but this is nothing but an corporate-controlled diatribe to divide the nation emotionally.

    Unfortunately, the President is also a puppet of the international fascist interests.

    Anyone who loves America is just picking his or her poison this election.

    Again.

    I don’t want another Neocon government, so I’m going to vote for the Kenyan.

    Welcome to America!

  • WaffenSS

    It is interesting how my mandatory payroll deduction coupled with my employers mandatory contribution has become an entitlement. Lumping me in with the welfare and such, does not endear me to the above author

  • Tim

    I’ve noticed lately that my comments aren’t published if they in any way favorable to Romney.
    Its disappointing.

  • Ben Franklin

    Many of the 47% who pay no taxes are working poor who get a $10,000 tax credit for each of their children: the blue collar workers. These are mostly Republican supporters.
    This is the dilemma of the Republican Party, and the reason many Republicans are angry at Romney!

  • gman

    “But once property rights are no longer secure, political elites can plunder with impunity.”

    but once property rights are no longer secure, armed gangs can plunder with impunity.

    But once property rights are no longer secure, unscrupulous businessmen can plunder with impunity.

    But once property rights are no longer secure, union bosses can plunder with impunity.

    and so on.

    “That’s why no truly independent minded person can depend on any political machine to protect his or her interests.”

    on the contrary. that is the only way to proctect them. a man alone may live as he pleases. ten men may dictate to him. a hundred may dictated to the ten. a thousand may dictate to the hundred. and so on. thus government.

  • mbeesley

    3 I Put no trust in princes, in mere mortals powerless to save.
    4 When they breathe their last, they return to the earth; that day all their planning comes to nothing.

  • gman

    “Am I entitled to the benefits – damn right. Just like anyone who paid into an insurance policy for 50 years and now wants to collect.”

    the problem is that the money you paid into social security was not invested and managed. it was spent outright. it’s gone. the payments you are to receive do not come out of earnings but out of taxation. unfortunately there is very little money left for such payments, and less every year. entitled or not, you’re just not going to get it.

  • phelps

    John, the author’s point may be missed re: SS. It was never designed as a retirement fund for you or anyone else. Just a big gov slush fund to enrich their friends at our expense. I’ll be lucking to rec. any SS thanks to trillions in debt. The whole point of SS was just to make folks dependent on gov and enrich the well-connected.

  • Don Levit

    Social Security is considered to be a welfare program by the FASAB, the accounting advisor for the federal government.
    In addition, the federal government considers future Social Security and Medicare benefits to be implicit promises, the lowest of 4 levels of obligations the federal government must be willing to fulfill.
    It is not even considered a liability, for the program can be abolished with a Congressional Act.
    Don Levit

  • John A

    Demanding your annuity payment of a 50 year insurance policy implies a business transaction. What politicians say versus what the law is are two different things. Since the payor is functionally bankrupt, you should not be surprised if your monthly check does not arrive some time in the future. The law allows for a tax but the benefit payouts are an administative fiction. Thats is why they are called entitlements. You are no better entitled to receive them than anyone else.

  • CT

    “But once property rights are no longer secure, political elites can plunder with impunity.” That”s good. No such thing as private property. You get to rent the property from the State in the form of Taxes with the right to sell said property if the taxes have been paid. Don’t pay and no more property.

  • gman

    “You get to rent the property from the State in the form of Taxes”

    since you’re not a citizen I’m sure it feels that way. but it’s not. what you describe is more like Company Housing.

  • mjr47

    I am new to your ‘comments’ and it is interesting to be here. The main ‘difference’ that I am seeing between the ‘Kenyan’ and Mr. Romney is that one believes in a core principle of American ‘exceptualism’ and a work ethic…the other does NOT.

    The dream of the ‘Kenyan’ is to put ALL of us into the role of dependancy on the Government. Our goal of accumulating ‘individual wealth’ will become a moot point thereafter.

    Romney’s ‘gaffe’ exposses the TRUTH. Those on this comments board who take umbrage and cast their lot with the Kenyan have not been paying attention.

  • Cari Marie Kasulinous

    @gman, i am a citizen, if i do not pay my property tax every year, the city will put a lien on my property, i will not bevable to sell my home, do any home improvments, because in my city any major property changes you need to get permission from the city by ways of a license. so to get a new roof, my contracter needs to go to the city hall with his plans, get a license before he even starts. now the city knows i improved my house, now they can raise my taxes because my house is worth more, i wonder why we need to get licenses to do home improvment. and i did pay taxes when i first got my mortgage. sorry, you are wrong if i do not pay my taxes long enough, the take my house away. i do not know what city you live in, but if your taxed on your property, then i want to move there.

  • Cari Marie Kasulinous

    we all hear the statement Romney made but hear it differently. In most conversations, you have a speaker and listeners, 1 comment can be taken 10 different ways, isnt that life though. i do not believe he meant those that have earned it and are now collecting it, and he did clarify his statement the next day. i heard him say those that do not work but can work, those that believe they are owed something for doing nothing. my military insurance premiums have been raised but there are millions of americans that get their insurance for free, why is that. why should we have to pay more because of those that do not pay at all? what i heard was Romney wants to stop this, by this i mean us getting charged more for insurance, medicine, food, clothing, gas and yes even taxes to help cover the cost of those who make the choice not to work. for those of you out there that say there are no jobs, yes there is, you just have to be willing to do those jobs, ie flipping burgers, cleaning toilets, join the military, but some americans believe this is beneath them, they deserve more and the government owes it to them.

  • Pete

    The 47% number was a Republican talking point for a long time – it’s from a Heritage Foundation “study” chart outlining “% of non-taxable returns” over time. Look at that wording closely. The meaning is that if you got a refund you are in the 47%. I got refunds by goosing my W4 withholdings and by being a solo LLC paying estimated taxes – so I have two different methods that I have been labeled a moocher for paying a much higher percentage of my earnings than Romney has admitted to. Who’s the moocher again, Mittens?

  • Richard Schultz

    It’s like this. Your so-called “entitlement” is actually a governmentally enforced withholding of wages to be accessed after a working life. This is actually a contract between law-abiding entities. True wealth redistribution is deemed necessary for the efficient functioning a modern mixed capitalist/socialist society. So you can just stick your neo-Randian BS back where it came from.

  • gman

    “gman, i am a citizen, if i do not pay my property tax every year, the city will put a lien on my property”

    I’m sure you hold the legal status, but it’s meaning escapes you.

    if you don’t like taxes, then there are many places in the world where you can live without paying anything at all and no-one will care. but you live in a city, because you want the benefits of living in a city. you just don’t want to pay for it. you live around other people, because you want the benefits of civilization. you just don’t want to pay for it. the city takes the position that if you live there, you contribute to the costs of the city, and they enforce that contribution. you want to take advantage of the city without contributing to it.

    citizens build cities. if everyone thought like you there would be no city. there might perhaps be some kind of privately-owned corporate complex where you have no vote, are permitted no property at all, remain only as long as it is profitable for the owners, and are booted out immediately upon loss of profitability or the first sign of the least trouble.

  • John A

    Richard S
    Where does it say the tax withholding is a contract? Withholding is different from a tax. Your contract with the government does not exist. Any contract you had was with your employer who only withheld a tax as required by law. No further promises.

  • ken

    Yes SS is a government pay out with a small twist. Most paid into the system for many years. It a bit different having a 70-80 year old receiving benefits he helped pay compared with a 35 year old in the prime of life sometimes collecting more than those drawing SS!

  • CT

    “I’m sure you hold the legal status, but it’s meaning escapes you.” It does seem like the meaning of citizen does escape you. I cannot remember a time when voting for no property taxes defined one as a citizen. Dream on.

  • Sandy

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09/19/republicans-axe-veterans-jobs-bill-prove-zero-interest-in-job-creation/
    The result of the callous Republican move will mean the 13.1% unemployment rate among post-September 11 military veterans will persist, leaving a quarter of a million vets unemployed after their service.
    “I’ve been surprised at the many obstacles and weird arguments that have been thrown at us,” commented Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA), the bill’s co-sponsor and chairperson of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee. Murray worked with Republicans including Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK) to incorporate GOP provisions before introducing it to the floor.
    While the Senate voted 58-40 in favor of the bill, it fell 3 votes short of the three-fifths majority needed to override the objection of Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) that the bill violated a budgetary rule because it will add to the deficit. The bill’s author argued that the budgetary rule doesn’t apply because the $1 billion bill creates new revenue to pay for itself over 10 years. Only five Senate Republicans voted for the bill, while all of the “no” votes came from GOP senators

  • OneTinSoldier66

    To me there seems to be a number of people not familiar with Jeffery Tucker, the author. He is an AnCap Libertarian and neither Romney nor Obama are ‘his candidate’.

    Regards

  • Charles

    It is only a gaffe if Obama or Biden makes it…its his true feeling if Romney or Ryan do it…Come on people get with it….

  • http://www.seniorcommunityguide.com Senior Guide

    You don’t know what you are talking about. Quite taking up space here at DR.

  • Catherine

    Not saying this guy is an idiot but…did he ever look at demographics? As more and more Americans (baby boomers?) retire and start receiving social security, more and more will fall into that 47% of “entitlement victims”. That is, they will be receiving the SS benefits from that system that they paid into for 30-40 years. I am still mystified why Romney chose to castigate people who worked for decades to build this country. Some speech writer clearly did not do his homework…

  • MsInformed

    Rmoney said at the end of that little 47% spiel that
    ” —I’ll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”
    That is not campaign strategy nor demographic analysis. That’s pure D disdain.

  • Barbara Leary

    I thought it was obvious the author was a libertarian. He doesn’t believe in government. However, Romney clearly said that 47% were going to vote for Obama because they felt they were entitled to a government handout that they didn’t deserve because they refused to take personal responsibility. I don’t see how you can read this any other way. I also don’t see how you can possibily say this is true. I work. I don’t take handouts. I pay taxes and I’m just one of millions of people in that category who are democrats. I really don’t see how someone like me could not be extremely insulted. Also, for some reason the word “entitlement” has become a dirty word, meaning the same thing as handout for nothing. If someone pays into SS or any retirement plan all their lives then they are ENTITLED to a pension. Retirement plans are contracts and the contract is just paying out as expected. Mitt, of all people, should understand contracts. How can anyone have any respect for someone this clueless?

  • Artemus

    Good piece. It’s hordes, by the way.

  • R.T. Herrera

    So, we voted a Republican in ( Bush ) in response to a Democrat’s ( Clinton )perceived improprieties. Then we voted in a Democrat ( Obama ) in response to a Republican’s ( Bush ) perceived inadequacies. That is what we do, everything else is politics as usual. We the people know that, individually, politicians believe they will make things better. The point is, put up or shut up. If you don’t perform well you will get voted out. Stop whining!

  • Don Levit

    Barbara:
    You are correct that you are entitled to Social Security benefits by paying into the system.
    An entitlement means that if you meet all the qualifications for benefits, you are entitled to them.
    But do not mistake the word entitled to refer to a contract, as with a private insurance company.
    Social Security is not considered a liability to the federal government.
    It is considered an implicit promise, which is actually the lowest of 4 levels of obligations – the first level being an explicit liability.
    There is a huge disconnect between how the citizens view their SS benefits and how the government views them.
    The FASAB is the accounting advisor for the federal government.
    From a paper entitled “Accounting for Social Insurance, Revised, Nov. 2008,” published by the FASAB:
    Page 35 “Social insurance benefits are not guaranteed or contractual, or advance funded, or promised. Social insurance benefits are not part of an exchange but rather are a welfare program and/or an annual general fund program like Medicaid and defense – which are as likely as social insurance but for which early accrual is not proposed.
    http://www.fasab.gov/pdffiles/socialins_exposurefinal.pdf.
    Don Levit

  • Bud

    no mater what oblahblah or the leftwing media will tell you, people 55 years or older will have the same benifits we enjoy now. people 55 years and younger will have different benefits in order to save S/S for the younger generation. anybody but obama!!!!!

  • Suzy

    How about we just take them at EXACTLY what they say? It’s not a gaffe – it’s what they’re thinking. Decide to vote based on which one you think would be a better president.

    Quit apologizing or rewriting these guys. They’re supposed to be big boys, capable of speaking for themselves. So let’s listen to their exact words.

  • sll

    I’m not retired yet, but will in the next few years. I will also be part of the 47% that the rest of the country will have to support. However, it maybe a larger percentage as the number of baby boomers retire. At that point, we will be the majority and the minority of the population will have to support us. How will this work for the rest of the country?

  • Joe

    The problem is NOT that Romney said there may be 47% who will vote for Obama no matter what he says or does. The problem is that he says ALL of those 47% are “government dependent victims,” which is an outrageous LIE. He is basically saying all Democrats are on welfare or living in government housing, or live off food stamps, etc. That is ridiculously insulting and show a total ignorance of who the people are who make up that 47% who don’t pay taxes.

  • Fernando

    Amazing how dumb some of these comments are. Jeffrey Tucker is talking about the facts of life under a modern democracy. Let me put it to you another way: “Democracy is two wolves and a sheep trying to decide what’s for dinner.” That should explain it a little more explicitly to those Republicans and Democrats here who believe their candidate is going to save the country.

  • gman

    “Dream on.”

    oh, we’re all about to live the dream. then you’ll see what I’m talking about. hope you’ve got your castle all squared away, self-sufficient and fully staffed with loyal servants.

    “the author was a libertarian. He doesn’t believe in government.”

    oh he believes in it. he’s just not aware it exists. few people are aware of the sidewalk they walk on, until it ends and they find themselves trodding through mud.

    “That is, they will be receiving the SS benefits from that system that they paid into for 30-40 years.”

    unfortunately the “system” was nothing more than a tax. they didn’t “pay into” anything. they merely paid, and the money was spent. it’s gone.

  • gman

    “Democracy is two wolves and a sheep trying to decide what’s for dinner.”

    capitalism is a wolf deciding what’s for dinner.

  • Don Levit

    gman:
    I am not trying to one-up you, but I just could not resist.
    In communism, man uses man.
    In capitalism, it is the reverse.
    Don Levit

  • gman

    “In communism, man uses man.
    In capitalism, it is the reverse.”

    that’s better than what I said. clean, clear, accurate, succinct.

    it also sounds very russian. is it?

  • http://louiszwu.blogspot.com Michael Powers (@louiszwu)

    “There once was this idea called freedom. You keep what you earn. You don’t live off others. You mind your own business. Society works out its own problems without politicians, police, bureaucrats, and power elites running their lives.”

    You mistake freedom for anarchy. Why bother with civilization at all? Or, for that matter any of the higher brain functions? We’ll just go on instinct. It was good enough for our ancestors, right?

    While I admit that government was never intended to become the unwieldy institution it has, the same could be said for just about every other human endeavor. After a certain amount of time, humans tend to confuse the symbol with the thing its meant to represent.

    What is government, really, but a group of people cooperating to achieve together what they cannot alone?

  • cantyouread

    I would suggest to all that you read the QUOTE very carefully. He did not say social security recipients…stop putting liberal/democrat words in his mouth. He was at a campaign strategy meeting (a private meeting) with potential donors. He said nothing wrong.

  • ivan bial

    In a nation of the blind a one eyed person is king.

    Willard and the writer believes we are that blind nation.

  • gman

    “You mistake freedom for anarchy.”

    what if it’s no mistake? what if he wants anarchy?

  • Newland

    The author, like Romney, laughably confuses Americans who don’t owe federal income taxes at year’s end with Americans who are on welfare and Americans who will vote for President Obama “no matter what”. There is obviously some overlap, but they’re hardly the same demographic groups. I’m guessing that director fellow, Spielberg, is going to vote for Obama no matter what, and I’d would bet he paid a whole lot more income tax last year than Romney.

  • Gottmittens

    Williard Mitt Romney, just rolling from one calamity to another.

  • Chris

    What cynical crap! You don’t like the way wealth is redistributed in our system. You would prefer no way pay anything and everyone fends for themselves? Go live in another country. I think it is called Somalia where that system is being tried. Is the government bigger than it needs to be yes. Do a small minority of people live without putting into the system yes. Are social security and medicare not currently paying for themselves; yes. Put that does not mean everything the government does it bad it just means those systems need painful adjustments. Now I am going to be cynical: Don’t worry when the pain gets bad enough the congress and president will act. It they act before then so much the better.

    The young living off loans and grants right now will some day get jobs and pay lots of taxes. The elderly who are living off social security and medicare spent most of their lives paying taxes. None of them spent even a large portion of their lives being ‘takers.’

    You mention that the middle class is earning less and less income. Yes as we have shifted from a manufacturing to a service economy that has happened. And to avoid taxes the wealthy get interest income via LLCs that pay no corporate or income taxes. We need to fix both those problems in this country to get back to increasing standards of living.

    Whining about a made up problem of takers is not helping in the slightest.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Simon/100000104768987 John Simon

    Sounds like a Johnson libertarian. You want 350+ million people fighting amongst themselves for their ‘personal freedoms’? Sounds like anarchy to me.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GP37RYDXXVUAI7XMCNRWM2G4W4 Fred

    How exactly is wealth redistributed? It’s taken from people that earned it. You liberal leaners seem disinclined to understand that. LLCs are not a loophole, they are the law of the land and someone took a risk to start that company. Where are you with all the people that started companies that failed? Are you championing taking money from welfare recipients that took no risk and “redistributing it” back to the them? Didn’t think so.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jimi.hayashi Jimi Hayashi

    Mr Tucker has been drinking that bourbon in the morning again or needs to get out more. I guess he did not see those signs “Keep government out of my Medicare” or does know any poor Right to Life people or poor gun fanatics. A lot of the 47% vote Republican against their economic interests. A lot of wealthy people vote Democratic against their economic interests in 2008 Obama raised more money from billionaires than McCain

  • Model T

    Chris, I’m a CPA.

    Please explain to me (and the few lost websurfers here) how the wealthy use LLCs to avoid paying corporate or income tax, without resorting to the use of the word “Somalia.”

  • riverrat37

    Oh Fred, would that it was that what you say was true. But, sadly, you’ve ‘adjusted’ the truth to fit your beliefs. That’s fine if you can get away with it, but alas, it’s not to be so. Mitt hasn’t worked for years (and years). Yet he made 14million dollars (or $20M; he claims both numbers) last year. You call that working? I think not. And Bain Capital got a $15M loan from the Federal Government (yeah, the USA one) and only repaid $5M. The remaining $10M was a write-off that the taxpayers had to pick up the tab for (again!) Mitt spins a good yarn but it’s not based on reality — like you, it’s based on what he’d like us to believe. He and Ryan are practically pathological liars. Don’t be sucked in by the need for him to be president. It’s not becoming to him, it’s not becoming to you and their whole mess is frankly embarrassing and shameful. Time for a reality check (again).

  • http://twitter.com/peace_dww Debbie Williams

    There are many poor people out there working 2 and 3 jobs whose income does not qualify as a livable wage, much less be enough to be subject to income tax. It seems the author is out of touch just like his man Romney. There are rules for qualifying for government food assistance just like there are rules to be eligible to collect social security and be eligible for Medicare (workers contribute to SS and Medicare btw). This blog, or whatever it is (just like Romney’s views) is more to do with abolishing the social safety net…it is what the Republican party has tried to do even before the New Deal was passed. Plus, it was no gaffe, it was more like a “caught on tape” moment. While he’s out there telling voters he cares about the social safety net, he really doesn’t. Mr. Romney seemed to be speaking from the heart in front of his mega donors and confirmed that he’s “not all that worried about the poor”. Romney has been telling the crowd of the moment what they want to hear for votes his entire political career. It’s when he is caught saying what he really believes in front of his mega donors that you really find out what he’s all about.

  • William Jahn

    “made up problem of Takers”. My foot. The problem of “takers” is far from being made up. I remember years ago walking past a meeting room in Indianapolis and hearing the meeting moderator exhorting the attendees to “learn about your welfare RIGHTS. I almost broke into the meeting to deride the concept that any of these people had a RIGHT to my money, other than money I may have had a willingness to offer to people that needed it. It is not a RIGHT for them to get the gift.

    Today, far too many people that really don’t deserve any help are milking the system. All these theives should be put in jail, along with the complict elected officials that enable this kind of greed to be rewarded. I am sick of welfare, and of about 70% of the people that take it.

    By the way: social security is NOT a welfare benefit. I paid taxes my entire life on the money I put into the program, have not gotten one dime of interest or capital gains on the money paid in over 40 years, and pay takes again on the benefit when I am getting it paid back . Frankly, that program sucks about as badly as does actual welfare.

    I wish our lovely legislators had to participate on the programs they put into law for the rest of us suckers.

  • joeybot

    The problem with Romney’s statements are that it’s clear he gave no thought to them. He basically said the 47% are all mooches who will vote for Obama because they want to keep getting free stuff. But there’s a TON of miliatry and elderly retirees in that number, along with the average Republican. What Romney said was simply some bullhockey to say to rich people to make it seem like he was looking out for them.

  • http://dailyreckoning.com/ Daily Reckoning

    In the interest of accuracy, Mr. Tucker is an anarchist, so he doesn’t support Romney.

  • http://twitter.com/peace_dww Debbie Williams

    I accidentally hit the vote down arrow. Sorry about that. Either way, he’s still wrong in his assessment on the matter and the misleading and inaccurate information in this blog are not in the interest of accuracy.

  • blill

    Ho hum! What a bore!

  • Chase

    This is a serious commentary, not to be taken lightly. It addresses and contains much profound truth. Needs to be read several times to appreciate depth. .Is there anyone out there with a brain who seriously disputes that we are now on a course of national suicide, led by our governing class- especially during the last decade? Romney is not my ideal candidate but he is surely better than the alternative! For sure, I WON’T be voting third-party in November.

  • Chase

    Pleas be specific . Otherwiseyour post is pathetic! That is, be SPECIFIC!

  • Robert_13

    The money has been getting redistributed for a long time in the direction of the rich. The banks ripped a bunch of people out of house and home and the reason so many people have become dependent is they’ve been robbed by the people who are complaining about it. You know, the ones who got millions in bonuses for driving their companies into the deep blue sea and the bailouts are the only reason they didn’t actually drown.

    Now you’ve got the people they ripped off complaining about the bailouts and blaming Obama for them even though Bush initiated that and Obama had no choice but to continue to implement a plan that was already in effect when he took office. This is not to mention that we’d all be in much worse shape if he hadn’t held his nose and done it.

    But the same people who were stupid enough to let themselves get ripped off are also stupid enough to blame Obama for it just because it all started just a few months before he took office. So naturally most of their problems came home to roost during Obama’s term. The Republican politicians are quite aware of this, but milk it to the max to get elected so they can support these rip-off artists indefinitely into the future. It truly stinks.

  • Robert_13

    Yeah, well you will see our safety net improve if and only if the legislators get exactly the same benefits we do. Let the law mandate that they get the same Social Security benefits, Medicare, etc. the rest of us do and you will see how things change. They have healthcare and retirement plans that are amazingly generous. And you pay for your legislators’ welfare, too. How would you like it if welfare recipients could just vote on how good their benefits are just like your legislators do ? Pretty nice little game, huh? So why aren’t you complaining about that kind of fraud?

    On your attitude, selfish brats don’t use their rights to help others. You just make noises about it while you complain about your money going to others. Funny how that changes when some like you end up destitute through no fault of their own

    Even if you really are a charitable person, it doesn’t take a lot of smarts to figure out that random, private gifts of charity don’t help everyone who needs and deserves help. No system can completely eliminate fraud, either. Why don’t you complain about the bankers’ fraud instead? It’s much more economically significant and it’s what got us here. They’re ripping you off every day much more heavily than anyone on welfare is. You know how much interest they make on your money? Got any idea about that? How much of that do you get?

    None of this is rocket science. Do a little honest research and use your brain. It’s apparently a lot smarter than you are, but you’ve got to use it. Most wealthy rip-off artists are class-conscious snobs who truly believe the rest of us are sort of subhuman and really don’t matter. Of course, some of the wealthy are honest, humble folks. Warren Buffet is a great example.

    The others feel that if we’re stupid enough to let them sucker us the way they do, we don’t deserve any better. I don’t know whether you’re wealthy or just another poor sucker for elitist propaganda, but the way you express yourself is clearly devoid of humility. Lack of humility is arrogance. There is no third option.

  • Robert_13

    The reply to William Jahn applies to you, too.

  • Gary

    Fred one problem you have is always thinking of wealth. Why is it you want to take away all deductions on the lower class but are never willing to take away all deduction on the rich? Who has more deductions, I have Social Security and a few other incomes which keep me just below the $34,000 limit, that is my deduction, how many do you have? You want to take away Social Security and Medicare but you are not willing to give up a damn thing, why is that? What are the 1%ers willing to give up in the line of deductions so you will pay more taxes?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joanne-Murphy/543035422 Joanne Murphy

    ONE PER CENT of the National GNP is spent on the poor. That’s right—ONE PERCENT. Look it up.

    You are spending a lot more of your tax dollars coddling the already wealthy than you are helping the “losers on welfare.” And BTW you could lose your business and it could happen to YOU someday. People fall upon hard times. They are born into poverty. Or they get sick. Or they suffer an economic downturn in their business and it goes belly up and they suddenly find themselves dependent, whether on friends and family or on the government in some way. The idea is not to spit on people when they are struggling because you don’t want people to spit on YOU when and if YOU are struggling. Many people who were smug Republicans ten years ago are now living out of their cars. Wake up.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joanne-Murphy/543035422 Joanne Murphy

    You said it! 40 years ago the top tax rate was 60%. Now it’s something like 25%, with only 15% on capital gains. Corporations used to pay 60% of the country’s taxes. Now they pay 12%. In 1970 the average CEO made 90 times the salary of the average worker. Today he makes 400 times the salary of the average worker. Upward distribution, indeed!
    BTW in real dollars (adjusted for inflation), workers’ earnings peaked in 1973 and have been steadily dropping vis a vis prices, ever since.

  • 777dave777

    gaffe: inadvertent and unscripted truth.
    Let’s see, he has offended gays, women, latinos, and 47% of the country… didn’t do real well in France, and I don’t think Palestine was real impressed. He seems to be a bit prejudice, and not a quick thinker. I would worry that as commander in chief, he would offend ally’s and foe. Possibly get the price of oil tripled for us, or maybe even get some WMD’s launched at us. He doesn’t seem to carry a very diplomatic stance.

  • Dan

    The problem is people are misreading the quote, and focusing on its various parts, instead of the entire thing. That includes all Republicans whose comments I have seen, and many Democrats as well (though the Democrats, at least, are arguing on the factually correct side, even though they argue against only a part of the quote).
    The problem with the quote is that Romney is describing and conflating up to 10 SEPARATE subgroups (perhaps one of which is actually 40 – 47% of some subset of some larger group). Each of those subgroups is its own constituency (some of which are Romney supporters), but he conflates them because his audience wants him to fight against “the enemy” which they created.
    Romney’s statement is absolutely false on all levels, numerically ans substantially. He goes far beyond political/rhetorical hyperbole and strikes off into total capitalist fantasy for his chosen audience. I’ll bet they rewarded his fiction with lots of cash!

  • bubba

    what a crock of shit

  • UNCONDITIONAL

    IT’S ALL BUT OVER REPUBS SERIOUSLY!! FORGET THE STICKERS AND SHIRTS, YOU DID’NT HAVE THE SAME KIND OF PROBLEM YOU HAVE NOW 4 YEARS AGO EITHER. “THE LATINO VOTE” IS LIKE 75-25 PRO OBAMA AND GROWING!! THANKS TO “ROB-ME” INSULTING THE CONSERVATIVE LATINOS ON UNIVISION WITH THAT STACK THE CROWD GARBAGE. IT’S LATIN PRIDE IN OUR COMMUNITY, NOT “LATIN BRIBE”!!! BAD NEWS TRAVELS AT LIGHT SPEED HERE, WE PLANTED THE GRASS ROOTS AND PACKED THE SOIL FOR THAT MATTER REMEMBER THAT COME NOVEMBER. Still stewing over that 47% also. WE STILL LOVE YALL AS AMERICANS UNCONDITIONALLY AND FOREVER!!

  • Robert_13

    Well, whoever the two are who didn’t like my comment seem to be fact-challenged dufi (plural of dufus? : ). It is a matter of public record that the proverbial stuff hit the fan months before Obama took office and the Democrats, not to mention Obama, are pretty hard to blame for that unless you just plain want to blame them for it no matter what the facts. Clinton left us with a balanced budget, Bush ruled like a despotic king for eight years while Cheney insisted that government debt didn’t matter a whit and these turkeys complained not even one little bit.

    Bush left two unpaid wars on the federal credit card and Obama is somehow at fault for not paying the bill, for raising taxes he hasn’t even raised, and unable to get more jobs open in the economy while the Republicans block everything he tries to do with support from white, male, blue collar workers who are suckers for Republican red-baiting. Throw in a pinch of racism and you have a nice, hot hate-Obama stew going so you can keep ripping these suckers off.

  • Blessed Geek

    30 years ago I was in Singapore and I attended an Evangelical church service, and that Sunday happened be a Texas-born guest missionary from Taiwan. In the midst of his sermon, he said something that I would never forget till this day. He was pandering to the ethnic Chinese majority at the service.

    There were probably 3000 people in the sanctuary. He was describing his travails as a missionary among the indigeneous mountain tribes of Taiwan. He said every time he furloughed, he felt a great relief of finally getting back to the civilised Chinese culture he loved. And he said of the crudeness of the indigeneous compared to the refined Chinese, blah, blah, blah. The whole audience became silent (silently offended), perhaps hoping the whole sermon to be over soon. No more hallelujahs, no more amens, no spontaneous speaking-in-tongues.

    Similarly, here is Romney pandering to every power-bestowing creature that moves. While in Massachusetts, he pandered to the liberal politics there. I really believed that he was sincere when he set up the model of Obamacare in MA, when he pronounced excessive human activities should be averted to avert ecological disaster, when he worked for conservationism, when he would ignore Republican state-congressman who were not in line with his “vision”, and he was not at all friendly to pro-gun lobbyists, he never cared a bit about pro-life issues.

    Then came 2006, he decided to run for President, he abruptly decided to buy an NRA life-time membership. He decided to call the science of conservation as questionable. He denied his MA healthcare regardless its similarity to Obamacare. The Bible says, the mouth speaks with the abundance of the heart. Even his closest adviser, in the abundance of his heart, believe that Romney could again and again reset the etches he made in his political decisions.

    He panders. He has a hidden agenda that none of us know about. He would pander to anything to achieve the power he desires. He is a disgrace to the Mormon community.

  • beyondliberal

    He’s got the tact of a freight train!

  • retrievegold

    Actually, 100% of Americans are dependent on government (Do you buy your food at a grocery store? How does it get there? Who maintains that system? That’s just one example.) and the wealthier you are, the more you receive in government benefits. Romney got it backwards. And it is the wealthy who most live in fear of victimization. And the lower your income, the larger the percentage of it goes to taxes (remember, there are a lot more than just income taxes, and a lot more than just federal taxes).

  • 777dave777

    How exactly is wealth redistributed?
    I’d like to know that myself…. I got missed. :)

  • Etta May Ladson

    The REAL truth about the identity of the 47% “who don’t pay income taxes” is that we remain part of a GREAT LOVE AFFAIR with the American GOVERNMENT.

    Many of us grew up at a time when the GOVERNMENT was central to our lives, at a time when we were raised to believe that the GOVERNMENT WAS the people, of the people, by the people and for the people. Every humble event included the singing of “The National Anthem” or the beloved “My Country Tis Of Thee.” When a member of family obtained a GOVERNMENT job, there was pride and joy and celebration. When a member of family worked for the GOVERNMENT, we never stopped saying so to our admiring neighbors. Delivering 3-cent mail for the U.S. GOVERNMENT was a badge of success for the never-to-be-rich postal carrier. His GOVERNMENT bestowed upon him employment love, and he loved it back from 8 to 5 with a life time of service and devotion. The ties that bind us to the American GOVERNMENT are not easily set aside.

    For many of us the GOVERNMENT will never be an intruder hovering about the periphery of our lives. We have taken HOPE from its charity, and we have taken CHANGE from its size. In return, in our daily life and at the polling site, we intend to give it back that central place that no one election can ever remove.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stephen-McElroy/100000311019105 Stephen McElroy

    1% of GDP is $150 BILLION. That is about $3,000 per family to make sure those that do not work, or can’t work get at least $400 per week in benefits. Jobs that pay $10 per hour or less go unfilled because people are paid $400 per week not to work. Go Figure.

  • frishy

    His lack of tolerance for ambiguity and his penchant for blowing up about criticism means Willard is not qualified to be POTUS.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stephen-McElroy/100000311019105 Stephen McElroy

    “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always vote for the candidate promising the most benefits from the treasury with the result that democracy always collpases over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a dictatorship.” Alexander Fraser Tytler, 1747-1813.

    Appears that time may be here if Obama is reelected.

  • Dennis

    Your Tytler quote is apocryphal, anti “New Deal” propaganda that first appeared in the 1940′s, and later circulated among annoying email spammers during the last three general elections. As for your “King of the U.N.” comment, you obviously have an extremely limited understanding of how the UN works. The United States can’t even get the UNSC to pass a resolution sanctioning the Syrian regime, it’s idiotic to assert the world will someday kneel before a U.S. president.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/C44A6HXKI2TQINSHO2UNETXNEY Debra

    That 10 million not repaid from Bain’s loan was dirty. Mitt threatened to disburse all the money to his executives as bonuses so that the company would be bankrupt and the government would get zero dollars back if they didn’t agree to the 5 million. This is the man some of you want as President? The way I figure it, he owes every single tax-payer from1992 (when he basically extorted the money from us) some money. When he pays that debt, I’ll consider him for a job; otherwise he’s a thief in my book.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/C44A6HXKI2TQINSHO2UNETXNEY Debra

    Apparently that plays well when you are the bully in the boardroom. Mitt and some others think the whole world is their boardroom.

  • maiqtheliar

    It is a very convenient truth to believe oneself independent of a system that, by its very definition, necessitates ties through trade, and thus, diplomacy.
    Its the economic crises that have arisen as a direct result of this interdependency that has given rise to the governmental programs that are so loudly decried by the libertarian in this country.
    In other words, these programs exist because of the failings of the pure capitalist state. Something America hasn’t been since before the great depression, and with the rise of Chinese style corporatism, in India, Russia and the EU, it will never be again.
    Our economic system is adapting to survive in a global oligarchy of public/private partnerships. To pretend we will turn back the clock on this is a pipe dream.

  • afairhope

    Most of the discussion about this video is erroneous. While it’s true that a little over 46% of the people don’t pay income tax, they are not on the dole as he said. What he really said was that 47% of the American people depended on the government fot all their needs. We should keep in mind that among the 47% there are over 4000 millionaires who didn’t pay any income tax. He didn’t mention corporations like GE that made billions in profits but paid no tax, while getting millions from the government. What Romney said that was untrue and so mean was that 47% of the people are on the dole and are irresponsible and do not take responsibility for themselves. My brother who worked and paid income taxes for years who was injured on the job and is now disabled is included in Romney’s 47%. I noticed that many of Romney’s defenders make the same erroneous judgment that Romney made.

  • bigbadude

    truth about obumer look around! the only ones who has gained from his presidentcy are gays and muslims!

  • KRodolfo

    I am not of the 47% who don’t earn enough to pay income tax, having paid it my entire life.
    I am of the 47% who would never vote for Romney, the rich kid who feels entitled to the
    Presidency because he is rich.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gary-Baker/100000091403524 Gary Baker

    and guess what stephen over 50 percent more is spent on corporate welfare than social welfare. SO who can best afford to buy YOUR govt and sell the working class down the river. Who makes billions off lobbyists efforts. Who do you think paid for the celebration of 6 drunk republican lawmakers who were skinny dipping in the sea of galiee. Yes lobbyists paid for the trip and you can bet it will cost the working class billions in favors later. You keep your blinders on thou you hear.

  • Non-Compromise=Tyranny

    The author is completely misinformed. Surely he exclusively watches Fox.

  • nick1313

    He actually insulted about 75% of the country with one line! Because about half of that 47% he talked about are (or were) his supporters! A lot of retirees and disabled vets are republicans such as myself. I put in my 20 years and retired, then went out and got another job and again retired. I paid into social security and a retirement account the whole time, and paid into income taxes too, but now since I am retired and on disability I no longer need to pay income tax and yes I get my government handout every month. The trouble is, it’s NOT a handout, and it’s NOT an entitlement, it’s a benefit that I paid insurance for out of every paycheck for over 50 years. It’s my payback for going off to war in Vietnam for a paycheck of $44.00 a week, and working 17-20 hour days 7 days a week to serve my country. It’s my payback for having survived long enough to collect on what I put into the program, with interest, so no Mr Romney, I am part of your 47%, but I am not incapable of taking care of myself, or taking responsibility for myself. I did those things a long time ago and now you and your cronies want to wipe all that out and say it doesn’t count. You want to erase the governments promise just like your corporate lawyers erase the retirement promises of your corporations when the money gets tight. And I say no to that and no to you. I will vote for Obama. See Mr Romney….I am NOT helpless and unable to take care of my own needs, and I need you gone.

  • Questioner

    Would that we all could live “independent”. Live in community with our neighbors. I produce things. They produce things. We exchange what we each produce. Build a web of interest in which each produces and all benefit. However our global village requires that my labor compete with a strangers on the other side of the planet. That stranger is not my neighbor. A stranger whose standard of living until two generations ago were unchanged for a hundred generations.

    Within these fifty states united until a generation ago, good productive dignified jobs lasted a lifetime. Now employment periods are measured in months. Instead of getting the gold watch for thirty years faithful service, you get the boot, for hard work because of another economic crash , boom or bust.

    The message from the oligarchy is that Globalization is here to stay. We have no control, because it is a globalized world. World Trade benefit everyone.

    Global capitalism promised good times and delivered … for the few.

    Global capitalism initiated an accelerating process where even when employment is obtained, tenure is tenuous, often non existent.

    Global Capitalism for the majority means lower wages. Global capitalism means not only is my job, disposable but so are you , so am, so are my neighbors the % 99.99.

    Global Capitalism is not good for my neighbors or me.

    But

    Global Capitalism is good for concentrating the productive capacity of billions in the hands of fewer and fewer people.

    Global Capitalism does mean the Unilateral De-industrialization of America.

    Is Globalization Like our failed and failing financial institutions too big to fail.

    No

    Global Capitalism is not new. It was tried before, and failed. It is failing again.

    Global Capitalism like it’s brother concentrates power in the hands of thugs, and oligarchs .

    Global Capitalism like it’s brother Global Communism will fail.
    Global Capitalism’s ship hit the rocks in 2008. Global Capitalism is taking on water. How long will you and I continue to bail the sinking ship.

  • deanrd

    There was a time Republicans believed in “United we stand”. Now they don’t.

  • MathildaMoon

    Why do you use the word “indeed” so much? It’s as if you’re trying to sound more intelligent than you are.

  • saddlebear

    The tone of Romney’s words, however you voice them, is one of superiority, not commonality. We need fewer “It’s all about me” politicians and more people who are going to work for what’s best for the whole country, not a subset. We need less generalization and blame and more specific, constructive solutions.
    The problem is not just Romney. We have a dysfunctional culture in Washington. The “tea party” attemp to supplant this culture failed. Utimately this is a government of the people, by the people and consequently, it’s not the government that is failing, but the people.
    I work with a large number of customers and it’s amazing how uneducated and misinformed people are. Rather than voting for an individual that they have taken 30 minutes to research the truth about, they vote for their own hot-button issue or their party. People vote based on what they see in commercials and what they hear from infotainment talk shows.
    If the people of this country suffer it’s at the hands of their own lack of vigilance.

  • Bidens kids

    Vote against the interloper & thief. Simple. Or, unless you are financially, you’re racked.

  • http://profiles.google.com/susan.tenofsky Susan Tenofsky

    Money is getting hoarded by Obama for projects like Solyndra; that we pay his cronies for and end up failures. Remember the poor are even getting poorer under Obama and because of Obama and his obsession with Food Stamps, they are not given an opportunity to work. All politicians are guilty and it does stink.

  • http://profiles.google.com/susan.tenofsky Susan Tenofsky

    Stay tied to the Chicago thugs who run Obama and see what you get for results. Community Organizers are not equipped to be Presidents. Obama steals our rights
    he does not abide by them. Congress, to him, is something to be avoided so he
    can make his own rules. You want more of that? You will get it. Think before you vote.

  • http://profiles.google.com/susan.tenofsky Susan Tenofsky

    We need someone who can handle a boardroom, that would require being a leader; something Obama is not familiar with. Governing is not his best
    asset. Golf and basketball are more in his category.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_G5RQSJCAA7TWCLGGBG4SI526TU Mike D

    “only a tiny elite were privy…’
    A: Goverment is ‘supposed to” prevent stealing.
    B: Government shows how stealing is the norm.
    C: Everyone steals,
    It is always the condition that for rampant widespread corruption to exist within a system, that the example is seen at the top of the hierarchy.
    It ain’t
    “it is no longer clear who the enemy is”much as some would like to believe.

  • Deuce Bollards

    Mr. Romney does not speak the truth. All of Obama’s supporters are not of one stripe. Not all persons who are on the government rolls, e.g. Social Security or government pensioners from the military or civil service, support Obama. Not all rich people support Romney. A substantial portion of the population supports Romney on social issues and they will not vote for Obama, no matter what. This is the problem we face when we try to divide every contest into a battle between good and evil and put all good on one side and all evil on the other. It is a failed choice. And Mr. Romney engages in that to his own peril. So does our country.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_G5RQSJCAA7TWCLGGBG4SI526TU Mike D

    Keep in mind the rider on the Veterans bill whereby any citizen is subject to a 50% net wealth penalty tax, should they “go live in another country”. Hows that for ‘distribution’ in ‘our system’?
    Since the passage of that Bill, all should abandon the ‘live elsewhere’/’love it or leave it’ arguement out of discussions. If one has the resourses of course there will be little affect on the rich and powerful.
    But as far as moving to Mexico or Canada to retire, for the vast percentages of Americans, whom don’t have offshored accounts in the Bahamas/Swiss Banks, we are now captured retirement ‘slaves’(if we make it,lol), just as wage slave current workers have less spending power each year, loosing 1/2 of your assets insures most cannot survive financially abroad retired.
    It seems ‘Globilization’ is only for those currently tied to the active income stream/wage slavery and corporations…globilization is not for retirees or marginal wealth owners.

  • KRodolfo

    Go away.

  • Newage42

    So all you bright people ask yourself these questions.

    What makes you think Obama deserves another 4 years, did he do such a wonderful job in first 4 years?

    Do you personally hate ROMNEY, or do just hate Republicans in general.

    Who are 4000 Millionaires who didn’t pay taxes and how did they do that legally?

    Does Romney lie and a is he a fraud? How do you personally know this to be TRUE:

    The liberal Media has printed and spoke many untruths about Mitt Romney!

    Yes I’m a Independent who did not Vote for Obama, why, because he did not have the experience to become President of the United States. why did he win the election,well the black people in America were promise he would do something for them and he has not.
    Now he personally may not have promised this,.,but you can sure bet your bottom pants some of his campaign workers did.
    If by chance Obama wins, we see this country turn down a very bad road, we can not spend ourselves out of this debt we have,

    It is really a shame that people Vote for a person because of his/her race, religion or the party they belong to and not to the facts or things they have or have not accomplished.

    I will Vote for whom I believe will lead us down a better road than we are on now.

    Vote on Nov 6th , but know all the facts, don’t believe all you read in the liberal news!

    God Bless America

  • Hellboy

    “Chicago thugs”…really? Who are these thugs? And what do you know about community organizing? And how is an entitled, spoiled rich boy who stole money and jobs from working people and hid the money off shore somehow better equipped to lead this country? You’re hatred has blinded you…

  • JoDanPan

    I love that you know exactly how Gov. Romney feels. That he feels entitled to the Presidency because he is rich. How absurd. Why do we all despise other people for their success? Oh, wait, not all other people. Did we pounce on Sen Kerry for being wealthy? That would be a no. Not to mention that I would much rather be the man who feels entitled (though he doesn’t) to a leadership position because he has been successful both as a private citizen and a governor, than be the people who feel entitled to the monies of others on the basis of….. we don’t have as much …. he has too much… I think the “new” Democratic party would have an easier time persuading me to cast my vote for them if they wouldn’t vilify the very people in this country that they propose we “take” from. You hate them for having money? What would you do if they didn’t have it? Oops. Now who do you take from? Hmmm.

  • JoDanPan

    I’m unable to understand your mathematically improbable claim that “money has been getting redistributed in the direction of the rich”. Is that right? So, who has it been taken from? People who don’t have money? Maybe you mean that policies have been implemented to encourage businesses to make profits so that they can provide employees with paychecks.

  • KRodolfo

    You are like a housefly. Go away.

  • JoDanPan

    Oh, that’s right. You are not here to engage in a serious, logical debate about the issues. Nor can you provide an answer to the questions I posed. I am going away now. God Bless.

  • http://www.facebook.com/noreen.brown.587 Noreen Brown

    the mitt is bush reincarnated with bank failures and companies going out of business.he buys companies for profit not jobs. he is deceitful and does not care or understand what most people do to day to day. will abolish medicare. his concern is for the 1%. do not believe the neg. cult tv adds and think for yourselves. do not be bullied he is not god

  • Honesty

    QUESTION

    As Medicare is it today, does not help elderly if they end up
    in a hospital. My mother in law was 90.
    She was a veteran of WWII and was a victim of the health system. She lived
    alone, like many of the elderly does; she fell down and ended up at Yavapai
    hospital in AZ. Her Dr. said she would be there for at least 2 weeks. She was
    dehydrated, with hypothermia, unconscious and malnourished. At the 3rd day, once she recovered
    her consciousness but still couldn’t feed on her own, the hospital said,
    Medicare would not cover her any more than 3 days, therefore, she had to be
    sent to a Nursing Home for Rehabilitation. I was very upset because there was
    nothing to rehab on such a fragile body. . But she was thrown out. At the
    nursing home, and under the Medicare program, they can’t provide intravenous feeding;
    they have lots of patients and just 2 nurses at a time. Some patients had to
    wait 30 minutes to be taken care of their basic needs. My mother in law fell
    again while trying to go to the bathroom. She passed away a week later out of
    the negligence of Medicare system.

    It
    seems like the option for Private Insurance to compete with Medicare would be a
    great idea; however, as we all well know,
    private insurance for mid-age healthy people can cost $470+ a month and
    does not cover everything. For a couple, private insurance would be $800 to
    even over a $1000 and that’s a conservative figure. By the time a mid-age person, reaches those
    days when health becomes an issue, the health insurance will be costing much
    more than the income from the Social Security. What “abra cadabra” specific
    plan do you have to really make a private insurance affordable for elder
    people? Would they be able to pay for it,
    pay the bills and feed themselves?

  • hubbert1

    YOUR ASSUMPTION: “ALL GOVERNMENT IS EVIL”?
    I reject this assumption. Yes, there is waste and incompetence in Government; just like there is waste and incompetence in any large company.
    THIS IS MY ASSUMPTION: “THE GOVERNMENT WORKS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE TAXPAYERS AND CITIZENS.” there are plenty of places where the government is working … although the 7.8% unemployment could be substantially better, 92.2% of americans ARE employed. The auto industry is coming back strong. the moneys loaned for TARP are being repaid with interest. Our forefathers authored our constitution and created of the worlds oldest and most successful democracy, Our forefathers wrote the constitution to be improved and modified … THEY WROTE THE CONSTITUTION TO BE ADJUSTED, THEY WROTE THE SYSTEM OF ELECTED PEOPLE SO THEY COULD WORK IN OUR BEST INTEREST..
    Can we please use the tools so thoughtfully provided by our forefathers?
    The constitutional framework is there. the missing ingredient is the truth. I advocate improvements in truth in politics, stronger penalties for deliberate campaign falsifications

  • Gerg

    Do we leave out the fact of the statement (by Romney) about entitlements, “don’t pay taxes”, etc. The point made, being made by pundits/media, is the disdain Romney spews in that brief paragraph. Certainly, political campaigns have since the beginning tried to focus on the “undecided”, the margin o f voters they feel they can sway in their favor — I get that and have no problem with that. But, I do have a porblem with Mitt’s off-handed dismissal of the “47%”. It is depolorable and speaks volumes of Romney’s elitetist attitude. It’s all about winning for Mitt, et al, and nothing to do with your welfare. Just winning for “winning’s sake”. Another trophy, another goal accomplished, for Romney. Why would you vote for “that”?

  • Gerg

    To JoDanPan…You don’t have to “know” how Romney feels, he tells you in that brief recitation. It’s all about winning — capturing another title — nothing to do with your welfare. As he so clearly states, he could care less for that 47%. Pretty straight up on his thoughts. We shold applaud any politician who “comes out” so clearly and concisely.

  • Buford

    Americans live under a delusion of democracy, we have a choice of two evils. One stands for finishing the destruction of the middle class and the other to divert “some” of that money for use in humane treatment of the masses. Both parties are tools of their controllers, learn who they are, follow the money trail starting with who owns the Federal Reserve. We all have been trained to be distracted, sports, electronics, politics….we the people must help teach each other the truth, not be the pawns of the evil overlords.

  • Belden Erhart

    Since 1980 the corporate heads have increased their take by 5000% while the worker take was increased by 15%. Looks pretty equitable to me. LOL

  • longtail

    We need a community organizer not a corporate raider.

  • http://www.facebook.com/victoria.burton.58 Victoria Burton

    PEOPLE really need to read what this man has written. It applies to soooo many of us!

  • Retired after 30 in the Army

    Wow, what will be “lied” about next?…Quit whining and run the country or go home if you can’t manage it. This year I have heard nothing but whining and excuses as my great country slides farther and farther into debt and our fighting men and women are coming home to a country in which almost half wishes they did not exist or would go away and will never praise them for the hard work they did overseas. I took the time to watch both conventions and try hard to stay on top of what the issues are and listen to both sides. I do not give my vote out simply because of party loyalty, but instead on what is best for living in my country and keeping it safe for my family and neighbors, and voting for the individuals to fill those positions to insure my country is working hard and influencing our world nations to be world citizens and not selfish, self-centered, nations and individuals.

  • Al Neuman

    Current definition of “gaffe”: Something said by the Republican candidate which the Leftist media doesn’t like. Never use this term if the words are spoken by the Dem candidate, no matter how outrageous the comments.
    In fact pretty much everything Romney has said which the Lamestream Media has rushed to try calling “gaffes” has the ring of truth, e.g., that London wasn’t fully prepared for the Olympics (they weren’t), or that the Palestinians’ economy isn’t as successful as the Israelis because they have the wrong cultural values and are focused on radicalism, not innovation like the Israelis–also inarguably true!
    In fact the day after Romney made the remark about why Israel has been so successful relative to their Palestinian neighbors, the Press types were shoving microphones in his face asking (demanding!) when he was going to “apologize” for his truthful remarks!

  • Alfred Neuman

    P.s.: Obama is “rich” too-worth about $15 million! Only difference is that Obama never started any businesses or worked outside of govt.–so where did his money come from?
    And why aren’t Lefties like you ever concerned about all the dishonest crap pulled by Obama, incl. his accumulation of great wealth while on taxpayer payroll?

  • Al Neuman

    We don’t “despise” Romney–just a caricature by the Lamestream Media, so desperate to re-elect this incompetent Fraud Obama, desperately trying to bash Romney. Unfortunately it’s not very believable, if you look at how successful, hard-working and honest his career has been–none of which adjectives could be applied to Obama.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Romney was not speaking to the public. He exaggerated the number who are enslaved by the Democrat give-away party. He did so inadvertently. But the truth of his analysis can’t be denied. That there are some who want a government takeover of the nation can’t be denied. That it’s nearly half the population is, we hope, an exaggeration. We’ll know more about it after the votes are counted in November. For Joe Biden to assert that Romney was speaking of members of the armed forces is remarkable. Most members of the armed forces of the U.S.A. oppose Obama and his policies, as most observers realize. For Joe Biden to assert that Romney was speaking of seniors receiving Medicare payments after investing in the program for many years is equally absurd. Yet that’s what Joe Biden did assert. He was wrong on many other things as well.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Romney was only exaggerating the number who eat at the trough when they could instead be working and earning and providing for themselves. He was not speaking of those who could NOT work but of those who WOULD not work.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Obama has been redistributing money for four years, taking from all taxpayers and sending the money to his friends and supporters. The “mess” Obama is now in can be blamed on no one but Obama, aided by Reid and Pelosi and other Democrats who are responsible for the mess in the first place. Concerning whether “the plan” was begun by President Bush and whether Obama “had no choice but to continue it” we might well look to the Democrat House and Senate which in fact began the mess and is responsible for it. In no way is it the fault of President George W. Bush.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Partisans for Obama want to pretend that nothing happened during the Bush administration that caused the nation to spend extra money. It was early in his administration that we were attacked by external enemies. Obama wouldn’t have recognized Muslims as enemies (they are friends of our Muslim president) but Bush did see clearly and acted to respond to the attack. He is to be commended for leading the nation well and honestly. Democrats controlled both the Senate and the House the last two years of Bush’s second term and he was not able to prevent the mess they made which was then inherited by a Democrat president and senate and house, who have made it much worse. It’s time for every Democrat to be replaced by patriotic citizens who love the free U.S.A.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Romney wasn’t talking to us. He was talking to a few potential supporters and he wanted them to face true facts he could see. A large percentage of citizens of the U.S.A. no longer want to work and earn their own living. They’ve been “on the dole” for many years and have no ambition to change. Democrats promise to continue the dole. Republicans encourage every citizen who CAN work to work and earn their own living. A contrast. But the 47% figure was too high if it included all who are being paid by the government. We’re proud indeed of our armed forces, and no member of the armed forces shoud be counted in those “on the dole.” Just the opposite. He should have placed the figure lower. It can’t be denied that it’s true that many now being supported by the government want to continue not working. But many who owe no taxes nonetheless are working and earning as best they can. Romney wasn’t speaking of such people as members of the armed forces and those who are now retired. He was speaking of ones who could work but just don’t want to do so.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    These charges are not in any sense true. If those who won’t work are offended, that’s to the good. If Palestinian enemies of freedom are not impressed, that’s good. Romney is not prejudiced. He doesn’t lack tact and good sense. He is honest and will lead this nation well if given the opportunity to do so. Obama is ruining us. The contrast is total between Romney, an honest leader, and Obama, an incompetent bumbler.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Nick explains why Romney wasn’t talking about him in the remarks he made privately to potential supporters. And then he blames Romney for what he surely sees is NOT what Romney said. Romney didn’t imply in any way that all those who receive government money as “helpless and unable to take care of their own needs.” He spoke of ones who could work but choose to NOT work. We who paid into Social Security are receiving the return from our investments. Nick suggests that Romney was defaming us all. Nick isn’t understanding what was said.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Victoria also can’t think straight, so she applauds foolishness. Romney called for his friends to face the truth that some in the U.S.A. are feeding at the trough of government handouts when they could be working to earn their own way. He set the percentage too high, but his statement is 100% true that there are such leeches in our society, and they are sure to vote for the party that promises to keep food in the trough. This has been a nation where only those who couldn’t work were supported in idleness. The Democrat party for some years now has been changing away from people caring for themselves and one another to forming groups who choose to not work but expect pay for NOT working.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Romney proves in every public utterance that he is tactful and sensible. It’s nonsense for some to advertise what he said in private to a small group of potential supporters and then to claim that means he lacks good sense in public speaking. Romney proves that he cares about others and is a capable leader rather than a driver.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Debra condemns Romney for being a capable businessman and one who proved in Massachusetts during a four-year term that he can work with others to accomplish good for all. Apparently beyondliberal and Debra know little about what has actually been done by Romney in recent years and by Obama in those same years. Romney is a success. Obama is a failure by any honest count.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Longtail would do well to see just how well Obama has done in running the U.S.A. Contrast what Obama has done as our president with what Romney accomplished in Massachusetts during his service as their governor.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    If 47% really prefer to see another four years of ruin under Obama, then they should vote for him. It’s to be hoped that 53% will have better sense than to vote for Obama.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    It’s good when sensible people comment on topics of general interest. It would be a blessing if KRodolfo would take his own advice.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Speaking of ignorance, how can anyone not be aware of Chicago politics and how they apply to Obama? He has learned well from crooks and their cronies. As for earned wealth, only a blind or ignorant person would suppose that Romney has stolen money and jobs from working people. In the U.S.A. businesses start and flourish or flounder. Romney proved able to help businesses flourish, but was unable to prevent others from continuing on to destruction. His advice in both cases was helpful and if followed would have resulted in profit for the business and for the nation. Why would any sensible person hate anything honest and uplifting. I see hatred. But it’s on the part of some who value dishonesty (Chicago politics) rather than honest business.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    If Romney had been speaking to YOU, you might be justified in claiming you now understood his goals and ambitions. But he was not speaking to you. If you eavesdropped, you may have gotten the full story or perhaps not. We all will do well to listen to what Romney says in PUBLIC if we want to understand whether he is honest and capable. His public record says he is both. He spoke well in the first debate with Obama and there are two more presidential debates. It would be well if we all would listen to both men. Romney does speak clearly and concisely.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Fred has it exactly right, that in order to redistribute wealth it must be taken from those who earned it in order to be given to those who want it. Obama wants all of lesser folks to hate those terrible rich people. This nation is not Communist yet or Islamic. It began as a Christian nation and is only now being pushed to become anti-Christian. All citizens are equally entitled to one vote whenever a vote is called for. Regardless of income. But it’s necessary that citizens are able to read and write in some language in order to cast a vote. The national language has been English. It should remain so. Taxes should be fair for those who earn little and those who earn much. Who says Fred wants to take away all deductions on “the lower class”? Did he say that? Judgmental is not the same as sensible.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    For some years now Romney has not been in charge of Bain Capital. If it did all these things you claim, that’s bad, but it has nothing to do with Romney. And all these “facts” you produce about what Bain Capital did sound very like Democrat lies to me rather than true facts. Romney has invested wisely the money he early earned at Bain Capital. Investors receive a share of profits of the companies in which they have invested. You suggest this is a crime in some way. You are wrong. Both Romney and Ryan are honest. Riverrat37 speaks as a true rat scampering under the dock. Most of us prefer listening to truth rather than ratty tales.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    If we speak often enough about a $15 million loan to Bain Capital, some will believe there was such a loan made out of the treasury to that company. And why would anyone believe that Mitt Romney was still in charge at Bain Capital when such a loan was made if it was in fact made? Lies can be presented as truth. Sensible people seek truth rather than believing all they hear.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Good for William Jahn. It’s bad indeed for our legislators to NOT participate in the social programs they put into law. And our investment in earlier years into Social Security are simply being repaid when we receive Social Security checks. We “built” that.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Romney does not, as Deuce charges, engage in making every contest into a battle between good and evil. I’m surely glad he’s on the side of good. It’s obvious that Obama is a Muslim seeking only ruin for this nation. There is an obvious choice to be made between good and bad in this November election. The platform of the Democrat party makes clear that it opposes God and good. The Republican party stands for what is good in our nation and in the world.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Romney faces facts. He doesn’t “get it backwards.” We need to realize that Obama is no friend of the U.S.A. but rather an enemy seeking our destruction.

  • joeybot

    The problem is, he WAS talking about those people because there’s no other way you can get to 47%. And let’s not also forget, that a lot of this progressive tax stuff came from Republicans who wanted people to pay less taxes, set up tons of stuff so people would pay less taxes…that came to pass and now those people are looks upon like moochers. Reagan set up TONS of this stuff.

    I think I remember (but I won’t swear to it, I could be totally wrong) that the number of people who are paying no taxes and getting money and not doing a thing was like 1% or 3% or something.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    It would be good if geek knew truth. His note seeks to obscure truth. False charges, stated as if they were proven facts. Romney and Ryan are the hope of this nation. Obama has almost succeeded in ruining us with HIS hidden agenda that is gradually coming to light. Obama is a Muslim and his aim is to set this nation up to become a part of an Islam world order. He’s doing well in that purpose.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Is Romney to blame if some wealthy citizens are being “coddled” by this Democrat government? You imply so. We “smug Republicans” see that the nation is vastly worse off now than it was when Obama began his campaign to ruin us. We also see that the only hope for the nation is for a house-cleaning of Democrat Senators and Representatives as well as the President.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    There’s a clear contrast between Romney and Obama. The one is a loyal patriot and capable business leader. The other is a Muslim anxious to see this nation fall into the hands of Islamic powers. What Romney said to potential donors is not the same thing he would say in public. That’s just common sense. He was making clear that those who seek to be cared for by government without them working would not be among his supporters. He was surely right. Of course he was speaking from his heart, just as he always does, for he’s no liar. And why do some want to insist that he was wrong? Those who have been taught that the government owes them a living without work are surely not going to vote for any honest government. The important difference between Romney and Obama is that Romney IS honest and says what he means.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    The federal government is wisely limited in what it is to do for individual citizens. Etta May wants it to do everything, it seems. Wiser citizens want it restrained by the Constitution with its bill of rights. Charity is best performed locally with local funding. Many things are by our Constitution reserved for individual states to perform. Yet the federal government is taking those things over and saying the individual states have NO rights. Etta May really should read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights!

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Fox News is honest and can be trusted. Can the same be said of any other news source? I like Mike Huckabee. I trust him. I have no reason to doubt what others at Fox News report as true. When I read other news sources I’m surprised to find propaganda instead of facts.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Romney speaks well and truthfully. If he were unsure of what is true, he’d not be a good selection as our LEADER. Obama speaks eloquently and lies well. His actions make clear that he hates liberty and wants to change the nation from the land of the free and the home of the brave into something vastly different.

  • 777dave777

    Uh-Huh… good luck with that.

  • afairhope

    Ray Downen, said Romney was only exaggerating the number feeding at the trough. Romney said that 47% of the people were irresponsible and relied on the government for food, housing medical care, you name it and would never take responsibility for themselves. There is no statistical nor factual evidence to support his assertion. Romney seems to say whatever he wants and then tries to walk it back. One of the reasons that many people pay no income tax is The Earnings Tax Credit (ETIC). This started out as a bipartisan tac credit, but of late the GOP doesn’t like it. The EITC is the reason that many people who make a decent wage don’t pay income tax. Also, there is the subsidy for raising children called the Child Tax Credit. The CTC keeps many peole from having to pay income tax. Romney’s state was just a meanspitited attack on a lot of people

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    I’m suggesting his 47% figure was incorrect. I think he now agrees that he overstated the problem. What’s most interesting to me is that he was not making a speech to “the public.” He was talking to friends in confidence, only one of them was not a friend. Let’s accuse Romney of what he says to US rather than what he said in private to ones whose financial help was needed. Do we want to encourage snoopers and gossipers? I don’t. Let’s keep our attention on what Obama has said and done rather than a misstatement by Romney. Obama hates capitalism. He hates liberty. He opposes all that has made this nation great. Every honest citizen needs to hold him to account for what he has DONE to us.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Those who have money either invest it or spend it. Investments made wisely create income. Some are jealous of those who have already made money and therefore now can invest and receive a return. Our economy is based on investors financing businesses they think can make a profit. Sometimes they are wrong and lose money instead of earning more. But we are free to do as we decide is best, win or lose. Romney has invested wisely and now receives honest returns from the investments. He will do similar things for our nation if given the opportunity to do so. The first and most urgent need is to reverse the things Obama has done for our destruction. When the Obamacare taxes kick in if Obama is re-elected, THEN his backers will realize how wrong they were. Already we’re seeing that regulations in Obamacare disregard the consciences of those affected and require us to do what we know is wrong.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    But were you really missed, or was it stolen from you so it could be given to someone else? Perhaps you didn’t realize that what is given away by the government has to be taken from someone, and maybe you’re the generous giver!

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Fred, how right you are that redistributed wealth was taken from one in order to be given to another. It didn’t grow on trees. I was earned by the one from whom it was taken.

  • 777dave777

    Maybe. I’m not wealthy. I work. When Bush sent out stimulus checks, I sent mine back, and ended up getting an audit that year, because the IRS didn’t record my returned check. I’m not on any government programs. So when you talk about wealth redistribution, nothing has been distributed here.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Good for you, Dave. I hope the audit didn’t result in you having to pay extra taxes.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Most voters didn’t realize what a con artist Obama is. They dreamed that the changes he had in mind were good changes. The hope they had and thought HE had was for a better U.S.A. I can only hope that enough now are enlightened by his deeds so that they’ll not vote for him again.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Good thinking indeed. But please also examine the platforms on which the two major parties are running. One of them seeks to please God. The other doesn’t know there is a living God to whom we will some day have to give account for our deeds.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Anyone can make us statistics, but most of us don’t parade our wild guesses.

  • 777dave777

    Actually, no. At first the problem was that they thought I had cashed the stimulus check and that I was supposed to pay the tax that following tax season. Took them about 45 days to actually find the information and realize that I had returned it.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    I see that we have a clear choice between the good guys and the bad guys. Comparing the platform which explains the thinking of each major party might help Buford see that while one indeed is godless the other is godly.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    You, Gerg, have decided that Romney is only after glory. I see that Romney is out to serve this nation honorably and well. Romney is clear-headed enough to know that some who are tied to the apron strings of the Democrat party will without fail vote for that party. He said so in a private conversation. It’s too bad that some think what is said in private is for their ears if they learn about it. Gossip and slander is what it is when we listen to what is private and personal and broadcast what we overheard. Commendable? I think not. I disagree that it’s 47% of voters who are unthinking robots. I’m sure that Romney would never say such a thing in public, nor really believe it. But surely we all know that he is right that some are not going to listen to logic or truth. The percentage surely is not that high, but it’s a good many.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Here’s one example of Medicare not prolonging life of a sick person. Under Obamacare, who thinks it will be better or as good? I’m 83 years of age. If I get sick, it is not appropriate that a great deal of money should be spent to let me exist a few more weeks or months. I help the singing (chapel each Sunday) at a nursing home and eldercare facility in Joplin, Missouri where I live. I see in our healthcare chapel some who are very sick, and it’s often true that one of the residents dies. All are cared for lovingly in that Christian “home.” When Medicare and Medicaid have paid all they will, the resident is still given loving care, with this paid for by gifts given for that purpose. Every community should care for their elderly and sick, and should set aside funds for the purpose. It is NOT the responsibility of the federal government to care for those in need. That a Medicare/Medicaid is available at all is wonderful. But if it’s to survive, it MUST set limits beyond which it will not go for any one individual.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Noreen knows only what Obama’s attack ads have told her and she repeats them just as if they were true. I appreciate the honesty and capability of Mitt Romney. To my knowledge he has never bought a single company. He has provided advice to ones who came and sought that advice, which if followed and by God’s grace the company would have come back to life. But some wait too long to ask for help and others are led by men and women who are simply not capable in business. That’s not the fault of Bain Capital! By the way, George W. Bush is an honest and capable person whose only fault was in being too willing to let other politicians get away with writing bad laws. He signed some into law which created the mess inherited by Obama. His fault was in signing laws he knew were not good for the nation but which the Democrats in charge insisted must become law.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    When did it become the responsibility of “government” to prevent stealing? It’s God who announced that stealing was wrong. It’s not true that “everyone steals.” I have to disagree with Mike. But it’s clear to me that Obama is an enemy of liberty and seeks to ruin the economy of the U.S.A. It’s equally clear that Romney/Ryan will seek to cure what ails us. They have good ideas based on love for the U.S.A.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    If this diatribe was intended to make sense, it missed its aim. Our nation does not exist in a vacuum. What we do affects others. What others do affects us. We have friends elsewhere. And enemies. If we’re wise, we’ll treat our friends as part of the family. Obama has friends, but his friends are not in any way friends of the U.S.A. Their aim is world domination by Islam. Obama is doing all he can to help his friends. Global capitalism is an enemy of Islam. Muslims oppose global capitalism or capitalism anywhere. So apparently does Obama. We need a change in administration in this nation.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    It’s sheer folly to want to not trade with our allies and sell our goods to friend and enemy alike. maiqtheliar speaks well.

  • RiverRat37

    Democrat lies is it? Nice try again Ray. Sure he invested money “wisely” … but at taxpayer expense! Read this and tell me honestly that you condone Mitt’s move to stick the Government with $10M he owed (and, it should be noted, had the cash at the time to do it with!) http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2012/08/mitt-romney-and-bain-company
    And, as you full well know, The Economist is not a left-wing rag. It’s highly respected and published in Great Britain.

    You go on to say “both Romney and Ryan are honest”. Do you think we’re all stupid out here, for pities sake?! Ryan has pushed lying to a new high and continues to, endlessly. Here’s some obvious ones: 1) He openly blames Obama for the closing of a GM plant in Janesville WI (Ryan’s district) that had announced it’s closing long before Obama won the election (and even more before Obama’s inauguration.) But the sick part is that Rep. Ryan begged the US Government for bailout money for that GM Plant. He himself wrote the letter with his signature at the bottom. You think he can’t recall this???? It was his district! Like I said, do you think we’re stupid? Ryan does. 2) In the VP debate Ryan says he had bipartisan support from a Democratic Rep for his medicare plan. Ron Wyden (D-OR) had, long before, put that foolishness to rest and soundly thrashed that lie. He and Ryan worked on a “Medicare Solutions” paper but when the vote on Ryan’s budget plan for Medicare came to vote, Ron Wyden voted AGAINST it. He accused Romney of making up lies — and this was years ago. Why would Paul Ryan try and use this as fact? Does he think we’re stupid. Look here, Ray. I could go on and on and on with this stuff. 3) He accused the Obama admin of the electric car investment in Finland during the Biden debate. That exact funding took place in GWBush Admin for pities sake. The guy has no scruples. He lies openly and with out embarrassment. Like I said, I could on and on and on. You want liars who refuse to provide details for their “big plans” in the White House? Not me. One GWBush was way more than enough for this country for a century (or more). We can’t possibly afford another now.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    The English publication copied what was written by Rolling Stone here. I could place more reliance on this account if it had come by way of Fox News or any other source. It seems strange that if it’s in fact true that it’s not been reported by any reliable news organization.

  • Frechette

    What Romney did is he told the truth for once. The truth is he has utter contempt for 47% of Americans.

  • Frechette

    And they still think they aren’t getting enough because they are the Entitled.

  • Frechette

    Bush lied about the Iraqi WMD furthermore Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. Bush paid for the war on credit card and lowered taxes at the same time. Those are the wonderful policies under Bush the shrub you keep blathering about.

  • Frechette

    Last year the average raise in the finacial industry was over 16%. For what? Shuffeling papers thats what. When has anyone in any US company turning out real products seen such a raise except the CEO. That’s how money gets redistributed.

  • Frechette

    Right and the Republicans including Ryan vetoed equal pay for women doing the same job as men. You want to go back to the Gilded Age no doubt.

  • Frechette

    Right and the former head of Bain Capital which had been exporting US jobs will bring them all back when he gets into the Whitehouse by trickle down economics. Been there done that since Reagan and it hasn’t worked.
    “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.” Albert Einstein.

  • Frechette

    Right and Romney loves us all including the 47%, the Middle Class, women, latinos you name it he loves them. What he really loves is power and he’ll say anything to get it. Yesterday he claimed no one who doesn’t have health insurance will die. They can simply go the Emergency Room of the nearest hospital. When he put in Romney care in Massachusetts he said exactly the opposite. Maybe he didn’t mean that either. Problem is one never knows what he means.
    What planet do you come from?

  • Frechette

    You’re not such a straight thinker either. You’d vote for an ass if it had a republican sign around its neck.

  • Frechette

    Romney was governor of Massachusetts in my state for 4 years when we had the worst unemployment in recent times and he did Zip, zero, nothing. Don’t spout about this man’s business accumen.

  • Frechette

    I live in Massachusetts and this guy accomplished zip.

  • rt

    Ray, your first sentence is a wild claim which you did not support and which I don’t see how you could support. In my discussions with many Republicans, they also make wild and unsupported claims. When I ask for evidence for those claims, they almost always refuse further discussion.

  • rt

    Mr. Tucker, you wrote “There once was this idea called freedom. You keep what you earn. You don’t live off others.”
    That may be true, but it is difficult to believe that many company CEOs and other multi-millionaires “earn” the money they “obtain”. Also, there are people who “earn” incomes that allow for extemely affluent lifestyles while others don’t “earn” enough to pay for basic needs, including proper health care for their families. I taught school for over 35 years and worked very hard. At one time my pay was so low that my children qualified for reduced lunch at school. I mostly lived from paycheck to paycheck and did not accumulate very much savings. I never “earned” over $55,000 in a year even with my experience credit, a masters degree, and supplemental pay for the subject I taught. I realize that in relation to some, my pay was considered high. So I find your statement about freedom disgusting if not nauseating.

  • truth

    I am on oxygen 24/7 and on disability, after working and paying in many years to Social Security……I do not think Romney spoke of the 47 % in disgust at all, as you say he was speaking to potential donors to his campaign, and telling them TRUTH of 47% not paying income tax…where is the LIE in that? There is no lie, and when you are running for office and want people’s money to make that happen, shouldn’t you be honest and logical about what sort of chance he may have of attaining this position? TRUTH weather you like it or not, 47% DO NOT PAY TAXES, THE END

  • truth

    Dead on Ray!! :)

  • ahairhope

    It seems that many people really didn’t read or hear what Romney said. He didn’t just say that 47% didn’t pay taxes, he said that 47% were irresponsible and would not take responsibility for themselves. That is a lie and mean spirited. I think that people need to wake up and see Romney for what he is a rich whiney white man, who has taken many millions of dollars that he didn’t really earn.The average person who votes for Romney votes against his own self interest, which is not too smart.

  • afairhope

    You either didn’t read or hear what Romney said. He said that 47% of the people relied on the government for all their needs, that they are irresponsible and would never take responsibllity for themselves. That is just not factual. I think it would be nice if Romney was honest. People who say that he is honest just haven’t listened. People who draw Social Security are not moochers. Speaking of being on the dole, before the election is over Romney will have taken about 1 billion from people. I would suggest that you read and listen to what Romney said.

  • phlypp

    Actually, I have NEVER had anyone explain why we invaded Iraq, although
    I’ve asked many time. The Administration knew at the time they actually
    commenced the war that their WMD information was false. Saddam not
    only had nothing to do with Al Qaeda and the 9/11 attacks, they actually
    hated each other since they were opposite sects and Iran, Iraq’s mortal
    enemy, was a strong Al Qaeda supporter. So, ANY Republican out there,
    please explain why Republicans started the Iraq War. I’ll accept
    answers from Democrat also.

    Pity your clear-eyed President didn’t see the attack coming despite warnings left by the previous Administration. And to lose 4,400 American military and 1,600 American contractor lives on a war that no one can explain is not patriotic nor American. Is torture, an standard policy of the Bush Administration approved by the vice-president, part of your patriotic values??? Meanwhile, the Republicans are working hard to eliminate your ‘free’ America with police state legislation like the Patriot Act and the Stop On-Line Piracy (GOP-all we need is a good name) to monitor, record and control all communication. Ever wonder WHY Democrats controlled the House and Senate the last two years? Because it had become obvious to everyone (2 years too late) that Republicans had ruined the country almost irreparably. You are truly the most clueless person I’ve read this week.

  • phlypp

    Obama was trying to keep America involved with important future industry that would have created jobs. He’s already saved the auto industry and was fighting against China and Brazil, both of whom were heavily subsidizing their photovoltaic industries. So Republicans are apparently willing to let industries fail and other countries eat our lunch while the President is willing to fight for America in the world marketplace. I’ll take the President’s approach.
    And did you notice that the Republican Party also takes donations from black energy such as oil, coal and gas? They just have more, and wealthier old-school cronies. Since green energy could eventually impact black energy, the Koch Brothers have spent two (2!) $5 million ad campaigns hitting Obama for attempting to keep a future industry American.

  • phlypp

    ………..crickets……….

  • phlypp

    Actually, the entire point is he DIDN’T think he was being recorded so we are seeing the true Romney, not the blue jean, plaid shirt Romney facade. This is what Romney REALLY BELIEVES rather than what he spews to the dupes at the rallies. The next part of your post follows the Republican modus operandi perfectly. When you have no candidate or position worth defending, keep telling lies about the opposition over and over again and people like you will keep believing because you’re completely caught up in your right-wing non-reality bubble and never give yourself the opportunity to see real truth.

  • phlypp

    Actually, those people want desperately to work but can’t due to the Republican Great Recession and the intentional killing of all jobs bills put before the House while Republican Governors lay off 230,000 public workers to insure the unemployment numbers stay high. An intentional effort by Republicans to sour the country so they can get back in power. Anti-Patriots!

  • LeSellers

    Frédéric Bastiat wrote that all government is, eventually, a way for one group to plunder the others. Democracy is the way in which every group plunders all the others.

    Mr. O’bama, where are the full-time Jobs? (And, while we’re at it, where are the war-zone absentee ballots, Mr. Commander-in-Chief?)

  • craine

    Are you serious!
    Mitt was just not hidinig his eletism and classism that night. He was apeal;ling to rich people stating that he wants to work for them and since others did not have their wealth he was not interested in them! I raise questions over the validity of this stats and can see him sipping brandy on his yaught saying…”I wonder what the poor people are doing today!

  • LeSellers

    Cassandra, the Greek woman of myth, was cursed always to tell the truth, but never to be believed. I’m not sure what Willard “Mitt” Romney’s middle name is (and to lazy to look it up), but I’d be much less than surprised were it a masculine form of “Cassandra”.

    It is a result of “our” socialist schools, owned by, operated by, and beholden only to government, that so many people believe the 47% statement to have been a gaffe. From the time we’re five (or younger for “Headstart” “students”), we have been taught that government is the source of all good things. The government-run, tax-funded welfare schools preach the gospel of the state (prytaneolatry), and the welfare office (in all its guises) answer the prayers of the true believers.

    Mr. O’bama, where are the full-time Jobs? (And, while we’re at it, where are the war-zone absentee ballots, Mr. Commander-in-Chief?)

  • joeybot

    You know how when people say they think someone’s great, and then when they’re with other people say that same person is a jerkoff? THAT’S what they really feel. Private is all what matters, not what they say on the stump. Like now, if you talk to Republicans or Democrats in private, you hear tons of stuff they’d never say on tv. Because what they do on tv is an act. Listenign to Romney suck up to those guys gives an insight to his actual beliefs.

    And I LOVE the idea of people secretly recording stuff…liberal or conservative. Because maybe some of these politicians will get called on their crap more often.

  • truth

    I’m sorry I do not agree with you. Are you saying the statement that 47% who do not pay taxes, is false? That is fact! No one mentioned those on social security are moochers…you are reading into his words…do not put words into his mouth. It is also a fact that there are 23 million unemployed, 16 trillion debt to china among others, weakening our military………..that is where Obama has brought us. How is that working out for us? I guess if you are sitting home getting checks, you may think it is awesome (some DO think that way) Be real. Obama has an agenda, and you may think it is for the American people, but I do not believe that. There are millions that want to go to work and deserve to have a thriving country to live in…..I want OUR AMERICA BACK!

  • truth

    @atfairhope…also I am very much against (as most American’s were) bailing out those big banks that gave out bad loans. What did congress do? They went against what Americans wanted and bailed them out anyway! Those guys up there voting themselves raises as everyone else is hurting (they are not doing their job by the way) and all the legislation that they vote against their constituants, lobbyiest are rampant, it is a corrupt group of people running things. I am sure you know you can’t spend more than you make, or you will be sitting the street….It’s simple math, so the problems came and have been coming for a long time, from corruption & greed

  • MHWashDc

    I had no idea Romney’s religion tells him he is becoming a god:
    http://www.ExposeRomney.com

  • Captain Nemo

    Romney didn’t work well “across the aisle” in Massachusetts. He managed to annoy legislators on both sides of the aisle in Massachusetts by being aloof and treating them like he could order them around. By the end of his term, Romney’s approval ratings were so bad with the public and both Democratic and GOP legislators that he knew he couldn’t run again and win.

    - Massachusetts Resident

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    If accomplishing great good for Massachusetts in 4 years as governor was failing to gain approval from other politicians there, the opinion of Captain Nemo is telling. If Romney had been a bad governor, surely he would have been impeached. The state is predominantly Democrat. Romney is not a Democrat. That he succeeded in doing what was most necessary for the good of the state is remarkable. Is it a surprise if some politicians were dissatisfied? That he was able to run once and win is remarkable and highly to be commended.

  • DocBurns

    Typical Republican. Tell the often enough, loud enough and long enough and it becomes the truth, at least a Republican truth. A lie is a lie is a
    lie. Look at what Obama has done and not misstatements by Romney ? A man who lies in public but shouldn’t be questioned about what he says in private does not have the integrity to be president.

  • DocBurns

    Mr .Truth:there is not $16 trillion of debt owned by China. The figure is $1.7 trillion. Google it. Typical Republican lies, again. Yours is the same lousy math that Romney uses.

  • DocBurns

    A very Christian attitude. According to what Jesus said, anyway.

  • DocBurns

    And it’s time for “patriotic” Republicans like you to be taken out and shot.

  • truth

    @afairhope I don’t see anywhere in my post that I said China owned the $16 trillion debt…..it’s owned by several countries including our own! Same typical answer from someone who really can not accept or own up to the truth……out of everything that I posted, this is what you have? Unbelievable! But not really, it’s typical

  • truth

    So sorry @afairhope , this answer was in response to @docburns……..not you…so sorry about that

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    To recognize the great need because of true facts is simply good sense. Romney has good common sense. Those who also have common sense are sure to vote for Romney for President.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Romney speaks truth all the time. Obama seems to believe the lies he tells. Romney told the young lady who wanted to hear that he would let illegal aliens become citizens that he would NOT give amnesty, particularly to ones who are dishonest and thieves. Romney tells the truth even when he could “buy” votes by shading the truth. Romney will make us a very good President, one we can be proud of. I’m not at all proud of Obama.

  • joeybot

    Dude, you are snowed. And don’t think that means I think Obama is a little truth telling angel. But you can catch Romney saying one thing and then saying the EXACT OPPOSITE the very next day! Either he’s a liar or he’s got Alzheimer’s.

  • Geologas

    The 47% comment is not the worst part of the Romney video. The stinger is when he goes on to say that these, so-called dependants, will never take responsibility for their lives. I’d say that goes a bit beyond election strategy and into the realm of judgement.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/7WTYRVBSZ27IYE4LD64Q4Z6KVQ Andy

    He has not done anything that any other president has done. Infact There wont be much difference between Romney or Obama b/s social policy. Romney will still spend even more then Obama, and Just like Obama will keep the Bush Tax cuts going. Romney is the biggest flip flopper there is, every time he runs for office he changes based on the people he is courting. I vote with the moral character, and who relates to the American people, He is like a BMW car sales men, comes off condescending like the quote above about the 47%, and I am not buying what bs he is selling. He works for us and he is saying 47% of people which is all of us here are government mooch, and dependent on the government teet. I can’t believe our party even nominated this guy, such a damn joke.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/7WTYRVBSZ27IYE4LD64Q4Z6KVQ Andy

    Its called taxes, which all people on this earth pay no matter where you live. The top income bracket already pay the lowest amounts in history 13-14% if they are some what honest. Add in all the loopholes and tax cuts the rich take you are considered a great business man. You lose your job and unemployment and get on food stamps to keep you from starving you are considered a no good mooch of the system wake up Ray. You have ate Fox News talking points to the point you are spewing them out . You can tell they are doing a good job at it with comments like yours.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/7WTYRVBSZ27IYE4LD64Q4Z6KVQ Andy

    Actually this nation was not a Christian nation , they push for religion to be “Separate from State”. Most of the founding fathers were against organized religion since they were coming to America to escape Catholic Church, and deep religious persecution. Of course many Americans did practice Christianity, but so also did many believe in deistic philosophy. Indeed, most of our influential Founding Fathers, although they respected the rights of other religionists, held to deism and Freemasonry tenets rather than to Christianity.

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    Amen Ray….I am sick of the radical liberals…taking this statement and including Veterans and Retired Elderly. Obama did that at the debate.as a last stab..and I really wanted to slap him myself..president or not. Obama and the Demon*crats are Lying, Deceiving…B********!

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    Veterans and Elderly Retired…were not included..and you know it. Stupid radical liberals and lying Deceving Obama…..Only a stupid person would believe that when there are 47+ million on food stamps, 24 million on unemployment, …not counting the TANF cards, and all the 85,000+ who suddenly became disabled in June 2012 when Obama changed the lowered the criteria to receive Social Security DISABILITY early 2012?

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    Only a total idiot would believe that Romney included Veterans and elderly retired workers on Social Security were included in the 47%. Obama with his dirty campaign distortions. There are 23+ million Americans on unemployment, 47+ million American on Food Stamps, and this does not include the TANF cards, Sec. 8 housing, and on…and on…or the 85,00+ who of all things….were accepted to Social Security DISABILITY. All of a sudden in 2012….this many people suddenly became disabled? Obama lowered the criteria to receive SSI…and has now made it just another ENITITLEMENT? YES HE HAS! Probably another reason Obama wants to take over the IRAs and 401Ks and turning them into Government Retirement Accounts paying 3% interest.

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    He has told so many…it is second nature. Liar and Deceiver.

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    Total BS…Joeybot… That is a lie…. The biggest flip-flopper, liar and deceiver since he campaigned in the last election…and he is still a man that you may never know the truth about. Who is B Obama? The truth that is known is frightening…and I knew last election that Hope & Change was Hitler’s slogan while devouring Germany! Enough for me!

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    After the past 4 years of the flip-flopping, lying, deceiving Obama…and the fact that he SEALED his whole life…and what has been learned over the past 4 years so frightening…what he has planned for the U.S.A.? Romney is a breath of fresh air!!!!! Who cares what Romney said…that by the way is the truth…and the radical liberals can’t handle the truth. If some one else is paying your bills, feeding your family, providing you a place to live, give you a free smart phone..and free healthcare {of which Obamacare is not really free…that is the biggest lie}..wouldn’t you fight back…. You don’t care about the detriment on the economy, America, or other American Citizens…you only care about YOU! That is the 47%..because 23+million are on unemployment {some 6+ years} and 23+million are on Food Stamps.

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    Romney wasn’t including Social Security or our Veterans…and it was stupid liberals who …first recorded a private conversation…and blew it out of the water. And what’s the matter….the liberals can’t handle the truth…There is 45% of our society that is leeches. Blood suckers on the people who do work.

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    So Andy…it has always been…that if you were born in money…or earned it..you buy more…you have more to claim on taxes. And the tax table is the same for everyone…the taxes the same..depends on how you file taxes, what you have to claim, and how much tax has been taken out of you pay. The same for child support…you pay 21%. Naturally that percent out of a huge paycheck.is more than a small paycheck. But 21% none-the-less. We have paid taxes every years since Obama has been in office. The Tax Rate Table increased every year since 2009. You increase the taxes taken out of your paycheck…and you still cannot touch the taxes in the tax table. We are two 58 year olds.. no dependents…and it is eating us alive. And now Obama wants to delete the Charity Donations, Money to Charity, Home Mortgage Interest and Cut the Medical in Half. Sick of this Communist!

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    And Obama is a Communist Has a Communist propagandist for presidential advisor ~~~~~ and is the biggest liar and deceiver there ever was. He has this country sinking faster than the Titanic…and you liberal idiots are still worrying about Romney’s money..instead of worrying about what Obama is doing with ours. WOW what mentality you have going there Riverrat37… Where have you been the last 4 years? Gas prices, NO jobs, 5.5 million homes in crisis, and on..and on….

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    Like I said…what mentality you have going there RiverRAT……And do you really believe everything you read? You do know that CBS, NBC, ABC MSNBC are all radical liberal news media? You do know that The Washington Post, USA Today, TIME, are all Liberal RAGS? You hear what they want you to hear and read. And there are enough BOGUS BS Liberal blogs on the internet…that put out nothing but propaganda…than fleas on a dog.

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    WOW what rhetoric!

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    Amen…and he was indeed speaking of the people who have made it a career of living off the government.

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    What a pile of BS rhetoric and propaganda! You are a brain washed pathetic human. I grew up in the 50/60s and still do not believe that the government should control any aspect of our lives. We are taxed to death..and even in and after death,,,. laws without end…over regulated…and Licensed to Death….Has anyone really though about how many license you really have to buy? Think about it!!!! Less Government!!!!

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    Idiot!

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    You Deuce Bollards, need to go back to sleep!!! It seems you have been sleeping through the past 4 years…so sleep on. Anyone who believes that Romney was referring to any Veteran or Elderly Social Security Recipient is totally stupid and has been asleep through the four years of the passing of Obamacare {23+ taxes}(an ulcer on America} & IS NOT FREE as Obama has led everyone to believe, the diminishing of our military {Obama hates the military & the Veterans} and the taking of money from Social Security for Obamacare & Social Prgrams. And you really should read the Obamacare…I mean …since you are on the internet anyway. It would be well worth your while… Just saying!!! Romney/Ryan “Believe in America” 2012

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    I so agree with you Ray! Obama is an Islamist….and some of these people really need to read up on this….frightening to say the least…and with 4 more years…these liberal mentally challenged will find out about Obama government and rule.

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    And you are a stupid fool! To believe such….I take it you too do not know the difference in an ENTITLEMENT and a BENEFIT. Go to school!

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    Idiot!!! Better than a ass-kissing Terrorist lover…and a Muslim…

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    Go back to sleep! Yes, Chicago thugs & Communist!!! Obama’s presidential advisor {Valerie Jarrett} is a member of The Chicago Underground Communist Party….Oh, yes…and there are more Radical Black Panthers, Communist Propagandist, members of the Socialist New Party, and Convicted Felons working in the United States of America’s White House…running our government….not counting the hundreds upon hundreds of czars in our American government…accountable to NO ONE>
    SUCK ON THAT….pure lemons….!!!!!!!!!!111

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    In your dreams! Obama organize..what?….fraud? Obama is no leader….he couldn’t even lead a full bladder for relief!!!!!!!!

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    Brain-dead! So you rather have Communism? Oh yes, We now have an Terrorist ass-kisser, A Chicago Communist Underground member as presidential advisor {Valerie Jarrett} and 106 more reasons not to vote for Obama…. I too have paid income tax since I was 16…and he wasn’t talking about you…he was talking about the 47% or 85MILLION Americans receiving ENTITLEMENTS….Not BENEFITS.. There is a difference!

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    And Obama is a Disgrace to America….ass-kissing Terrorist lover.

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    Lack of mentality or didn’t learn anything in School. There is a difference in ENTITLEMENTS and BENEFITS.

  • http://twitter.com/AKDBBmmC Angela Cleveland

    Not really… The fact remains…is that it is true. When people think they are too good to do cashier work, food establishment work….it is sad. Even Walmart has been calling back to work “part time” retired citizens because the younger generation..although hired…want to party on the weekend…or decide they just will not show up. I have known two of these ladies…and they say the younger generation is so spoiled..and have been given everything…so they will not work. Then there is also some of these that get pregnant…and live on the government…never look for work… Yes, There are those who do not and will not take responsibility or accountability for their lives. The news today are talking about “GROWN” children moving back home. WTH? And Obama saying children can stay on your insurance {under obamacare” until they are 26? Since when in the circle of life….is a 26 year old still a “children”? At 18 you are considered an adult…and can join the military and die for this country.WTH? You call Romney out for a stinger? The biggest ULCER on this country is Obama, his Socialized Healthcare, and his Communist agenda for this country if re-elected… He already has signed an executive order giving himself absolute ‘dictatorship’ over “martial law”, has closed 1496 banks…to work toward Federal Government Controlled Banks..{of which some things are already used even in the small town banks}, and there 106 more…very important issues and reasons NOT to vote for Obama. Frightening!!!

  • CarlWstCoast

    Mr. Tucker is absolutely right: “no independent minded person can depend on any political machine to protect his or her interests.” Already cast my ballot for the Libertarians…

  • joeybot

    Well, people tallied up to see how do you get to 47%, and you had to include those people to get there. Romney said PEOPLE WHO DON’T PAY TAXES. Well, those people don’t pay taxes.

    I know you like your guy and all, but face reality. Whatever he can say, to anyone, he will say. All the Republicans called him on it way back. I’m sure if one of them actually made it this far, you’d probably agree with them.

    And I’m not saying Obama’s great either. Just saying Romney definitely isn’t.

  • babyzee

    romney and ryan don’t have a honest bone n the body all the do is lie the man was born with money and because he is a bussiness man don’t mean he will be a good president he can not treat America like a bussiness because the citizen are not his employees we are people and he did not make all his investments his self someone else made them for hom who would what a man like him who does not like people because they are poor and need the gov for a little help because that is all they give them and no i’m not an welfare i was in that same military that Bush sent to that unnessary war and loss my hearing so if i need the gov will i be included in that 47%?

  • babyzee

    truth you must be a retird to MUtt is the one with the agenda just because he ran a business does not mean he can ran a country it is so different he is only telling people what they what to hear he don’t mean not a single word he says he changes his words like the weather the full of bs he is confussing hisself

  • babyzee

    Ray i think you need to go lay down and wake back up the country was a mess when our fine President took over, He can only do what he is allowed to do. what ever is tried to do it was votoed but he did he was going to do and i believe in him like i said before i was sent to that unnessary war st my hearing and i blame that on Bush we was fighting for his a nd his daddy oil well because they are the one that own them so you can sit your self down and think about that and when i got out under BUsh adminitration their was no jobs lol and u blame this mess on Obama not he saved millions of jobs and banks

  • babyzee

    and with that said under Bush adminitration we lost thousand of lives doing two unnessary was and because the Chris man was killed they made a Very big Deal out of it what about the helpless soldiers that was killed why not cry about them Yes Obama is the commander a chief but he is not a genie with a crytal ball that will tell him that we have some crazies out here whom get upset over a movie he did not make the move he is doing his job and let Mitt know it at the Debate lol that was to funny

  • http://www.facebook.com/hotsuff.pan Hotsuff Pan

    show me where ..1.. ONE statement by any democrat where he tells any unemployed worker to NOT work.. to please continue to remain unemployed… as opposed to the republicans who are the only ones who are trying to motivate the american public to work.. by cutting off necessary assistance to anyone not working. . please. forward that article..

  • scared

    Ray you must be sleeping with Romney because you have all his answers he is the devil in sheeps clothing that my grandmother use to tell me about it must be something about him that the people did not what he been running for of for years and got in because their was no one esle he was not the best man he was just there along with the others go crawl back under his whole in his big rich hood where he understand the people because he does not understand the little people

  • http://www.facebook.com/hotsuff.pan Hotsuff Pan

    snoops? he is a public person wanting to become the leader of the free world in confidence?.. whats next? nixon should not have been record please?. and get ir right.. its President Obama. he hates unemployment.. he hates welfare for the rich, for the corporations… as for reasons PRESIDENT Obama failed. try the one that the republicans have openly stated tha they want to make his term just one term… is that working with him? is that working for the american people.. please ray… tellme why anyone running for president should be talking on the sly to rich people about what he REALLY wants to do.. and why its wrong for the rest of us to hear it

  • http://www.facebook.com/hotsuff.pan Hotsuff Pan

    ruin this nation? did you forget who was in power for 8 years? who was in power when the money lending houses went under… who was in power when the auto companies came to washington hat in hand… who originally bailed out the lending houses…. as for doubling the debt.. ok mr math.. it was 8 trillion when he came in to power.. and its 12 now.. doubling?.. romney has common sense?.. that the romney care health plan is good for mass but not for the nation?.. that Obamacare was modeled after romneycare… did you forget this?.. alzheimers kicking in old man?

  • truth

    Sorry, i do not tend to agree! But in case you did not realize we still do have freedom of speech and thought, and I do not have to downgrade to name calling to do it…your statement sounds like the words from your Obama…who has never ran anything, except our country into the ground..I don’t happen to want to live in a socialistic/communist/marxism country if I can help it. Have you ever ran a business or company? Neither has Obama. But you are in any case FREE (so far) to your opinion, without me calling you names….(UNLIKE YOU…I AM SURE YOU ARE PROUD!) :)

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Do YOU want what you say to your wife be heard by all the neighbors? Of course we speak differently to one group than to another! But Romney’s message has not differed regardless of the group directly spoken to. And meanwhile, Obama deliberately misrepresents facts. In particular I speak to his claim that Planned Parenthood offers mammograms and other things needed by all mothers-to-be. And his claim now that he recognized and spoke of the terrorist attack when our ambassador was murdered as a terrorist attack. He and his spokesmen for the next five days were claiming the death occurred during a mob protesting a video. Obama lies. Romney tells the truth. The nation is being ruined by Obama’s policies. We need him out of the White House. If not by a majority vote, then by the impeachment which he has deserved now for many months. But surely enough voters will recognize what Obama has DONE so that they’ll not vote for him again.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    You claim to be a Republican by speaking of “our party” nominating Romney. But Republicans are able to speak and write without use of “damn” and calling our action a joke. We thoughtfully considered several very good candidates this time around, and settled on the one we feel can defeat Obama. He will do it honestly and without resorting to dirty tricks. Romney has proved through many years that he is an honest and capable leader. Every citizen who loves liberty should be shouting his praises, especially as compared with the Muslim now in the White House.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    It’s odd indeed to speak of a “Republican Great Recession” when our difficulties are directly caused by Dodd and Frank in the Senate and House and both are Democrats. They were aided in their work by fellow Democrats and a very few Republicans. The recession we’ve experienced is directly caused by Democrats. The Democrats have NOT offered bills which would help restore jobs, so it was not necessary for Republicans in the House to reject such bills. And the bills which would have helped were passed by the House and rejected by the Democrat-controlled Senate in every case. It is important for us to realize that this administration has not operated with a budget any year since taking office. The one budget they presented for approval to the Senate received not one vote from either party. It would be fair to speak of this recession as Obama’s recession. The cure for it will be called “Romney’s Pickup.” He will stop the spending which is pushing us farther and farther into unpayable debt.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Romney will follow Reagan’s plan and it surely will work now as it did then. We honor Ronald Reagan. We have no cause to honor Obama, whose every act has been to the discredit of our Republic. Romney proved in Massachusetts that he can work with politicians of both major parties and accomplish needed objectives. Obama makes no effort to work WITH Republicans, trying apparently only to force us to do things his way.

  • jinxed13

    When Reagan left office, he left with low unemployment rates, job creation rates in the private sector (because of his economic policies) higher than previous presidents, higher numbers of Americans owning homes, and the government collecting more revenue due to the high employment and high levels of new jobs created in the private sector, while lowering taxes. Clinton inherited the surplus for which Democrats praise his policies that they want to delude voters into thinking that Clinton was responsible for the great state of the economy while he was President. While in office, Clinton supported NAFTA and CAFTA and as a result of policies that allowed more imports of foreign goods into America while not demanding that the countries that import goods to us accept the same number of imports from America as what we accept from them. As a result of these policies, some of us now see that the American worker got SHAFTA courtesy of Clinton, and more American manufacturing companies relocated abroad thanks to NAFTA and CAFTA. Obama sent stimulus money to Europe to help create jobs there, and a Chinese company using Chinese labor is building bridges in America courtesy of Obama while Americans are out of work. When our government creates a program or a new agency they do so knowing that they will be supported by the myriad of taxes imposed upon workers and corporations. When the agencies or the programs are unsuccessful, wasteful in spending practices, or rife with corruption, government demands that taxpayers continue to fund them anyway. Private industry cannot continue to keep pouring money into companies that they own that aren’t profitable because they can’t gig the taxpayer for operating capital. Their choices are to layoff some of their employees and consolidate operations, bankrupt, sell, or close. Any corporation that owns multiple companies knows that if they continue to financially support one of their companies that year after year doesn’t turn a profit — which is done by investing profit from their performing companies rather than reinvesting in the performing companies (and maybe even creating more jobs) — eventually all of their companies will collapse financially and more employees will be out of work because of having to close what were once profitable enterprises. Government doesn’t operate on real world economics, they operate on parasite economics and had there been a demand for government funding by candle makers at the time the electric lightbulb became popular, government would still be giving candlemakers subsidies even though the market for their product is extremely tiny.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    He can’t, of course. Obama has driven many businesses out of the country with ridiculous regulations. Romney will reverse those executive regulations and let businesses thrive again in the U.S.A. Obamacare is the worst, of course. And Romney promises to simply remove that and in time replace it with sensible health care laws. Unlike Obama, Romney will keep his promises, but it will take many years to get the nation back in the black since Obama has driven us so far in debt.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    The persecution was from many sides, not just from Rome. In England in particular it switched from reign to reign whether it was Romanists who were in power or who were persecuted. Our forefathers wanted the government to not favor any religion over another religion, and that’s what the Bill of Rights says. No government-sponsored religion. We became a Christian nation because a majority of us were Christians of one kind or another. Those who wrote our Constitution and the Bill of Rights were wise indeed, and we do well to recognize their guidance toward a small federal government and things which can be handled by individual states handled by each state. The federal government has no business dictating how schools should be And several other matters have been taken over by the federal government which we can’t afford and which should be returned to state control. This administration should be keeping illegal aliens out. They won’t enforce the laws, and choose to sue the states who seek to enforce those laws. We have a terrible government at this time!

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    You say Obama had no choice but to continue give-aways begun by Bush, but Bush only did that as a favor for his already-voted-in successor. It was Obama who wanted the give-aways and who CHOSE freely to give away a great deal more than was in the first Bush-era giveaway. Obama had a choice. He did what he wanted to do despite the Republican advice to not borrow and spend and borrow and spend that Obama wanted to do and has done. Was it several months before Obama was inaugurated that the first give-away happened? I think it was very soon rather than several months before. Most if not all of the mess we’re now in is entirely the fault of Obama.

  • jinxed13

    The class warfare that Obama has successfully started that villifies the evil rich, evil Wall Street, evil corporate executives is a tactic that has worked for communist and Marxist regiems throughout history and works magnificently well if a politician wants to wage war on another country. For Hitler it was the evil Jews who were destroying the economy and keeping the non-Jews poor, for Lenin and Stalin it was the evil capitalists destroying the economy and keeping the rest of the population poor, for jihadists it’s the evil Jews, Western influences and the evil infidels, etc. destroying the economies and moral fiber of the rest of the world and who are interfering with the return of Mohammed. The very poor also don’t pay any share of income taxes yet they are eligible to receive money via tax return. The “evil rich” tend to invest in corporations that employ people and evil Wall Street facilitates the buying and selling of stocks in companies that employ people. Have you ever successfully gotten a job asking a homeless guy to hire you? Obama loves to quote Warren Buffett who says that the rich like himself need to pay more taxes. I understand Obama quoting him as it’s one hypocrit quoting another hypocrit. Warren Buffett could pay more taxes simply by not taking the deductions he’s entitled to or he could contribute money to the government. He’s so supportive of the rich paying more taxes that he’s willed his estate to charity and what does that mean? It means that his estate won’t be paying taxes! Obama and Biden are so supportive of spreading the wealth around that they take advantage of every deduction they can and they give less to charity materially and financially per year than does the average middle class wage earner. They also set up exemptions that allow themselves, their largest campaign donors, and friends to not have to spread their wealth around — when they say spread the wealth around, they are talking about spreading your “wealth” around, certainly not theirs! Cutting the exemptions that help the middle class and poor own homes, give to charity, and be able to afford medical care will do nothing by ruin the home building industry, real estate sales, and any other business that supplies materials and labor to those entities as only the rich will be able to own homes and have necessary medical care. Charities won’t be able to serve as many of the people they currently serve as they won’t be getting as many donations. Clinics and hospitals will close as the majority won’t be able to afford the health care they need and people will be forced to choose whether they are going to pay for prescriptions and doctor’s visits or pay for housing, food, and utilities. The goal of Obama and Biden (Mr. “we have to spend our way out of bankruptcy”) is to insure that everyone else but the rich will have to live on government handouts and entitlements so that they and their minions can maintain their power bases. After all, if we don’t have slaves then we don’t need slave masters.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    I hope someone who knows the facts will correct the claim that we were 8 trillion in debt when Obama was inaugurated. I have in mind that the national debt was just over 1 trillion at that time if even that high. And to blame Romney for Obamacare is illogical. Obamacare was pushed on us by Democrats with no Republicans in favor and no one having been able to read it prior to Pelosi calling for the vote.

  • jinxed13

    Maybe Romney didn’t “work” but the money he made was the result of investments in corporations that use the money to produce products that they have to hire workers so they can meet consumer demand for the products they produce. Romney also contributes millions to charities that provide services to the needy that aren’t being met by government or the community (Biden and Obama donate to charity in the low thousands — and not 5 or 6 figure donations, either.) Obama sent stimulus money to Europe to create jobs there, and the foreign aid we gave to other countries increased while we borrowed more money from China, all of which has to be paid back by taxpayers. Obama gave loans and grants to his friends and major campaign donors. Do you think that will ever be paid back? Maybe a little research on the part of yourself and not parroting what you’re told by NPR, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, the DNC, etc. will be an enlightening experience. But I have to accept the fact that some people don’t like facts to interfere with the truth they think they’re being told by propagandists.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    For some reason, you think you know that Romney and Ryan are both liars. Is every politician you don’t like a liar? What I hear from Romney has never once been proved to be a lie. Same with Paul Ryan. But if they made a misstatement, I’m sure they would be eager to correct it if they learned they were in error. You say though that they only lie, and that’s a very peculiar claim.

    It’s too bad you’ve lost your hearing. Others have lost legs and arms and their lives. But they chose to fight for us as volunteers. We did not ask you in particular to go to war for us. You also volunteered, so far as I know. And the risk was then by your choice, not by our choice.

    Those who have money choose where to spend or invest it. It’s their money, not yours or mine. If they invest wisely, they earn a return on the investment. That’s good and not at all bad. You seem to think it’s bad for Romney to earn money by investing (risking) money. Most would disagree with you about that.

    As for us seeking to protect Iraq from enemies, that was indeed a choice made by President Bush. That Obama now seems to have thrown away our investment there by pulling all our troops out too soon is his decision. It’s not the fault of President Bush.

  • jinxed13

    Fact, the dealerships that were closed by the Obama administration as a result of his policy of “saving Detroit” were dealerships that weren’t closed because of lack of profitibility, but were closed because they contributed to the campaigns of Republicans. Fact, Great Britain has socialized medicine, housing, etc. and their citizens are taxed at much higher rates than are US citizens. If it’s highly respected and published in Great Britain, it’s left wing. All politicians lie, some more than others, and Obama has taken lying to heights unheard of by any politician in history. Why else would he spend millions to hide his college records, his birth certificate, the identity of the person who paid for his travel while a student, and I could go on and on about his hypocracy. All he campaigned on was “hope and change” but he never said what he meant by that and he still remains clueless as he never ran so much as a lemonade stand, his only experience was in being a community organizer. He didn’t know where to place his right hand while saying the Pledge of Allegiance, and he didn’t even know how many states are in the US as he was “tired because I’ve campaigned in 57 states,” he thought that military personnel should pay for their own health care because they voluntarily signed up for military service, he didn’t know his aunt was in the US illegally living in subsidized housing and getting other government subsidies, and his uncle was in the US illegally and had been convicted of multiple DUI’s, he attended Rev. Wrights church and called Wright a big influence in his life yet he didn’t know that Wright preached anti-American sermons like “Goddamn America!” Obama won’t wear the American Flag pin on his lapel because some people are offended by that, he has had the US flag removed from Air Force One and all government websites, he apologizes for America’s greatness, and has said it’s unfair that we pay less for gas and other energy than do Europeans and vowed to make sure that our energy costs went up in the spirit of fairness. Somehow that all is supposed to translate as honest and truthful?

  • phlypp

    I’m assuming everyone knows Ray is either intentionally deceiving people or hopelessly ignorant himself, and doesn’t bother crediting his comments just because they’re every third one. He blames the Republican Great Recession on Dodd and Frank. The Dodd- Frank bill was passed in 2010 to restore the protections the GOP eliminated. The Democrats have offered plenty of jobs bills, everyone has been shot down by the Republican House. Mr. Dowen also doesn’t seem to be aware that the House is responsible for generating and passing the budget, not the President. Apparently, Mr. Dowen, not content to merely spin and distort existing facts, finds it more convenient to make them up from scratch.

  • RiverRat37

    Yes Romney gives away a lot of money … but best I can tell it’s largely (or totally?) to Mormons only. He’s required to do that or he’d be excommunicated. I don’t like to belittle it, but it’s hardly freely given charitable giving, at least by my definition.
    If you check you’ll see the amount we owe China is not all that much (percentage-wise) …. heck we owe our own citizens much, much more. And it’s out there at a heckofagood rate.
    All presidents give loans and grants to friends and major donors — it’s the way our system (culture) works. You want to stem that tide? Work to get Citizens United overturned — pronto!
    Obama does not “give” money to Europe and to foreign aid. That’s largely the function of Congress. It galls me the way people say that “the president” does this and “the president” does that, as regards money and laws. The president doesn’t pass laws — the best he can do is veto them. Otherwise it’s simply a formality to “sign them”.
    You sure know how to pick on Pres. Obama but I sure don’t hear much about McConnell and Boehner!! They are at the root of most of the problems we’re facing. If they’d quit be so impossibly partisan, and do what they were hired to do, something might actually get done!
    With the endless string of blatant lies and half-truths from Mitt and Paul Ryan, aren’t you worried about their stature as leaders of our country? I sure am. Like the “binders of women candidates I requested” (which he never requested) and Ryan’s complaint about how Obama closed a GM plant in his district (Janesville, WI) which, when the truth came out was 180 degrees from his claim. That is, it was announced for closure during the GWBush administration, actually shut down the Chevy Suburban line before Obama was inaugurated and then it comes out that Ryan wrote letters to GWBush (as pres) begging for a bailout for GM there! That is childlike lying — blatant and sinful. What’s worse is that he thought there was any way he was going to get away with it. Embarrassing and shameful. And stupid. The list of stuff like this goes on and on and on and on. Like … Massachusetts DID get it’s school students to #1 in the nation … it’s just that it wasn’t because of Romney. It was his predecessor, Gov. Weld, that caused it. Romney had a 61% approval rating by Mass residents at the beginning of his term. By the time it ended, it was down to 38% (no wonder he chose not to run again). They didn’t care for him much, eh? And women in his administration, by the time he ended his term, was well below the national average. And have you seen how many bills he vetoed as Governor? It’s huge and this from a guy who would have you believe he always “worked across the aisle”! It just goes on and on. And this really galls me too: Why ever does anyone think that running a co. like Bain is anything in the world like running a nation — the biggest, most complex and most expensive one the planet??? There is practically no correlation. He can’t go around firing all the people he doesn’t like (like Congress or the Supreme Court or the States, etc.) The can’t just shutter the company (USA) and let everyone go — he doesn’t seem to realize this. This guy ain’t presidential material — not even close. And should he be elected, you’ll see what I mean in the first 6 months. This will be GWBush all over again, with some nasty twists.

  • RiverRat37

    Anglea ~ What’s wrong with you? Have you not taken advantage of free education in the USA? Are you learning challenged? Here’s why I ask: Do you understand the meaning of “communism”? Apparently not. The fear of Communism in the USA died during the 1970′s. It was obviously a hoax and the fear was created largely by the John Birch Society, which we now totally ignore. No, you needn’t be frightened by Communism any more than Martians taking over the world. Ain’t gonna happen. Get off that silly kick.
    As to lying? Mitt and Ryan have raised it to a new level and just can’t seem to stop. Not even close. Mitt just did it again with his silly made up story about “binders of women candidates”. He took clear credit for personally requesting them to be produced — where in fact, a women’s group delivered them to him without his asking. So he takes credit for the idea when it wasn’t his to start with. Then by the end of his administration his was well BELOW average with women in his cabinet. When small children do this sort of “adjusting the truth” we punish them so as to teach them that lying has consequences. These 2 guys need to have their mouths washed out with soap.
    Paul Ryan accused the Obama administration of causing the closure of a General Motors plant in his district (Janesville, WI). That plant was marked for closure by GM well BEFORE the election in 2008! And it actually closed before Obama was inaugurated in Jan 2009 (it actually stopped producing Chevy Suburbans on Dec 17, 2008). So Obama couldn’t have “caused it”. Not possible. But it gets worse! It turns out that Ryan as a US House Rep wrote letters to the GWBush administration begging for a bailout for this plant. TWICE. The letters are on the web with Paul’s signature, and on his US House letterhead. So he blames Obama for the closing (which was impossible) and wanted a government bailout for a co. in his district. You think he forgot that he wrote these letters during the Bush administration? I think not. Time to punish this childish action by a bald-faced liar. I could list a hundred more like this. They are both pathological liars and will say anything to get elected.You go on to blame Obama for Gas Prices. That’s dumb. A president has no control over gas prices — have you forgotten that this is free market society? You want to blame someone? Go after the oil companies that are having the best years ever in profits … in the 10′s of billions (each quarter!!!) They’re the ones ripping you off. You go on to say “NO jobs.” That’s also wrong. GWBush had 850,000 jobs disappearing A MONTH when Obama took office. During Obamas 3.5 years in office there have been 5 MILLION ADDED and it’s getting better all the time. If you knew anything you’d know that jobs are the last thing to recover during a recession — the very last thing.. …and homes in crisis? Does the name GWBUSH ring a bell with you? It was during his admin that this whole housing crisis and burst bubble happened. Obama has been trying his best to dig out of the deep, deep hole that Bush created. Boy oh boy have you got a lot to learn, Angela!!! Time you stopped and got some facts and end this panicky silliness. There’s truth out there and you need to find it. That way you can stop looking so foolish. Sorry. But it’s true. Nothing you wrote to me has any basis in fact. It’s all bluster and foolishness. Try and do better, eh? Your country needs you.

  • Carrapo

    The idea that 47% of people do not pay taxes is ridiculous and a total distortion of the facts. Anybody that works pays federal, state, medicare, and social security taxes. If they do not pay income tax is because they have already been taxed through their paychecks and their income level is such that the tax code does not required them to pay any more income tax come April 15th.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    I like Herman Cain. I like Newt Gingrich. I like Paul Ryan. I like Mike Huckabee. I liked Ronald Reagan. I like George W. Bush. The more I hear from Romney, the more convinced I am that he’s willing and able to restore our nation to greatness. Obama has put us in terrible peril, and it’s getting worse every day he’s in office. I wonder if the third debate will be better moderated than the second. If so, we’ll at least see Romney getting equal time with Obama. And Romney will tell the truth.

  • joeybot

    I love how when we disagree with someone, they’re like Hitler. That’s the refuge of the unthinking.

  • joeybot

    I know Republicans who can’t go without cursing and hating minorities.

  • joeybot

    You think we were only one trillion in debt when Obama got into office? You’re not a serious person.

  • joeybot

    Well, was Bush so much better than the Democrats? He went NUTS with spending, and, by the way…a lot on entitlements that helped dig the hole we’re in.

    If it weren’t for those liberal, crooked moderators, giving Romney precious seconds less than Obama, then we’d all know the truth.

  • IggyZ

    Look at that Gallup Poll has Romney 52-45 I guess those 47% marks were on the money!

  • Blount Truth

    A Romney gaffe? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x2W4GhSLlQ
    hows that for a collection of “gaffes”?

  • Chris Slucker

    What did you find out that was so frightening? What does he have planned?

  • Frechette

    You are trying to tell me what I heard Roney say with my own ears. More Republican spin.

  • Frechette

    Are you going to put any blame on Bush for this disaster or are you going to remain in complete denial because your hero Reagan once claimed “Thou shallt not speak ill of a Republican”? Bush left with a $12 Trillion deficit. Check the facts!

  • Frechette

    Can you provide a ref. to the bill you mention so I can google it?

  • Frechette

    How about corporate welfare? Aren’t those also takers? How about the rip off we taxpayers were subjected to because of fraud by criminal bankers? Let’s not forget the fraud and corruption prevalent in the defence industries.

  • Frechette

    Yes indeed Ray claims to be one.

  • Frechette

    Gary you must understand for the greedy enough is never enough. They are no better than drug addicts.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001219758556 Anthony James

    Obviously, you missed the above point! And the point is, that that 47% is factually true, because Romney is talking about the “swing vote.” It’s the president who is clearly pandering to the entitlement mentality which has increased significantly over the last 5 decades, or haven’t you been paying attention.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001219758556 Anthony James

    While I agree with the explication of what Romney’s comment actually meant, I don’t buy the conclusion, however, that all government is is an organized way to loot from one another. Sure, it happens, but government is also the means for securing justice and fairness to a degree not possible should people be left on their own. One of the major points our Founders wrestled with constantly in the development of constitutionality was the power of the majority over the minority; the various systems of “checks and balances” written into our republican form of government certainly seeks to offset the often unfair advantages of majoritarianism. Quoting Bastiat doesn’t automatically establish your assumptions here.

    Of the two, president Obama has clearly, and repeatedly, attacked the rights of the individual to own his own person; first through Obamacare, and then through a myriad little attempts from empowering the UN over constitutional rights to using taxpayer monies to “invest” in his ridiculous energy schemes.

    One last thought: please identify this time and position in history – “There once was this idea called freedom. You keep what you earn. You
    don’t live off others. You mind your own business. Society works out its
    own problems without politicians, police, bureaucrats, and power elites
    running their lives.” – when and where has this every been the case for any reasonable amount of time???

    Read more: The Truth Behind the Romney “Gaffe” http://dailyreckoning.com/the-truth-behind-the-romney-gaffe/#ixzz2A7q0MdBQ

  • joeybot

    I didn’t miss the above point. I know he’s talking about the swing vote. What’s idiotic about Romney’s statement is that ALL of those 47%…military, retirees, etc…are going to vote for Obama because they don’t pay taxes. All of them. So apparently people who DO pay taxes ALL vote Republican, every one of them. That’s such a lame, pandering statement that even he knows is full of it, it just sounded good saying it to a bunch of rich guys who he wanted money from.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Surely I’m not the only one who knows that Frechette’s claim is totally false.

  • wirelessmodz

    so he lies to the public ? and tells the truth to the people who he wants something from yeah thats what you just said guys a douche bag

  • Robert_13

    The typical voter in this country has either pitifully low or non-existent skill in critical thought. They have no idea how to vet their sources and valid reasoning to support their conclusions doesn’t even enter the picture. They simply suck up whatever they emotionally prefer to believe or what helps them fit in with their social environment and the thinking that dominates there.

    So where were you when the banks were going under and some were allowed to fail with catastrophic results on the market way before January 2009? Where were you when both the Asian and European markets were collapsing and in a financial domino effect because the stupid, complicated, highly leveraged financial instruments had become distributed all around the world?

    You’re right about Bush, though. He left the room during one very critical session because this stuff was way beyond him. He thought it was fun to be president because he had little to do with anything and took more vacation time than any president in history. He was just an illiterate, dope-deranged industrial puppet.

    No one with any objectivity coupled with a little intelligence thinks that Obama is to blame for all the stuff that was just starting to hit the fan as he became president. The Republican politicians talk that way because they know the public doesn’t generally follow any of this stuff, so they can get away with it politically. So they know better, but they also know they can easily sucker you.

  • buviamk

    No-it was Bush with unfunded wars that he never put in his budget, and tax cuts for the rich, and medicare-bills have been proposed by Obama but the republicans have either filibustered or voted down in their NO agenda-we need to get rid of every NO Republican that would rather take down a sitting President during their recession than help the American people-their #1 goal and the rest of us have paid for their traitorous ways-Romney stands for a RETURN to Bush ways and wars-with his flip flop etch a sketch have we ever voted for such a Loser???

  • http://www.facebook.com/scottagalvin Scott Galvin

    FIrst of all the 47% comments were NOT a misstatement by Romney. It is a republican talking point that I have been hearing for a few years now. It is designed to give the impression that half of the population of America doesn’t work and is living off of welfare. In effect, stealing from the rest of us working Americans. It’s designed to incite anger in the working class to get them to vote against their own economic interests. The number unemployed welfare recipients is really at 5 or 6% depending on which study you read. The great majority of the 47% are social security, medicare, pension earners, the disabled, and veterans. These “victims” are people who have worked and served honorably for many years, paid into SS and medicare with every paycheck, earned thier pensions, and are true americans in every respect. The rest of that 47% that doesn’t fall into one of those categories are the working poor. Those that work incredibly hard every day, some have two or three jobs they hold down just to make ends meet. They have income taxes taken out of their check every week just like the rest of us but the get it all back in their tax return. That’s who romney was talking about. And to top it off, the majority of those 47% live in republican voting states!

  • Noelle81177

    My husband is a Chief in the USN (SS) and we most CERTAINLY DO pay taxes. I just looked as his most current LES and there was quite a bit taken out. Now, in all fairness, he is still an OH resident but hasn’t lived there for more than 180 so during tax season, he will get all of his State Tax back. But you can bet your little liberal tushie that Federal Taxes will not be returned in full. He pays for his own “benefits”.

  • joeybot

    Obviously not every single person in the military pays no taxes. But a lot overseas do not.

    Liberal tushie? Pay attention, lady, do you not hear me bagging on both of these guys? Of course not, I can’t talk to a Democrat who will hear one negative word about Obama, and vice versa with Romney. Modulated opinions are not needed, we need action, not facts!

  • beader9389

    Please explain, in detail, with facts, how the recession was directly caused with the democrats. I seem to remember the private sector, driven by greed and aided by deregulation loop-holes (remember, the less regulation the better! Whee ! Less government!) taking advantage of loose credit and allowing credit to people who had no business borrowing money for the homes they are losing or have lost. That’s their greed, too by the way, I hold many of those homeowners accountable too. If you are entering in a mortages, you should certainly be able to balance a checkbook and understan want you can and can’t afford. I especially feel no sympathy for htose that were speciulating in an overvalued housing market. So, we had tp bail out the banks. How is it that Obama is directly and personally responsibilty for the recession. It’s pretty much common knowledge that the recession we are in would be horribly worse if not for the stimulus plan. Plus I would like to know what you think McCain/Palin would have done differently that would have us all working and financially successuful. Oh, I forgot. 47% of us don’t want to work.

    Since I am on disability, I certainly fall within the 48% tho I do pay taxes for self-employment. Despite being physically unable to do rather a lot of things, I clean people’s houses because I have to pay for my medicare supplemental insurance for my husband who also on disability and totally unable to work at all. My part-time work allows me the privilege of paying my co-pays, co-insurance and for uncovered medications that keep my husband alive. If only I could find a sit-down desk job where I could work part time I could probably save Medicare a lot of money on my band-aid medicare treatments and allow me to actually get stuff fixed that I can’t afford to have done. I have an MBA in computer engineering but have had no luck finding a part-time job, and believe me, I’m looking. Thanks to some of the jobs programs available I could retrain in something more flexible and lucrative – say nursing. If I could stand for more than 20 minutes.

    Part of the 47%. And I don’t for a minute believe that just because Romney thought he was among friends and not to us rabble, he should be given a pass. My mother always said that you shouldn’t say anything you wouldn’t want to be a headline in the next morning’s paper..

  • beader9389

    What about the Bush’s? You left them out completely. Because certainly you can’t blame the whole economic mess we ended up with in 2008 on Obama? And I keep hearing all about Nafta but what about all the buying up and selling off of companies that happened during Bush II’s administration. Do you really think that no Republican had a hand in exporting miliions of service center/customer service/computer jobs to India and elsewhere saving money yes but costing millions of American’s their jobs and all the rest of us to forget what getting good help over the phone was all about. Oh wait, that must have been only Democrats that did that. You’re missing 16 years of history there and it’s a shame because Bush I did some really effective stuff. As usual, all bad = Democrats, all good=Republican. It’s really hard to listen to peole’s arguments when they leave out the reality when it suit their argument.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GMQNOW5SLTJX3KCRK5BEXR55DQ yahoo-GMQNOW5SLTJX3KCRK5BEXR55DQ

    the aggravating part of romney’s 47% comment is that people take that one line out of context and run with it becuase it makes for a good sound bite in the attack ads.

    watch the video. read the transcripts……….he’s talking about who he should target in his campaign. he’s saying 47% will vote for obama because he’s their paycheck. sure he uses some “not-too-good-sounding” words but they’re true, maybe that’s why it hurts them so much to hear it.

  • Doug White

    What terrible peril? Why do you people say stupid stuff like this and never, ever back it up with an actual fact. And please, please don’t say more dumb stuff like more people on Government programs like foodstamps, etc. Obama did not change the eligibility criteria for those programs one iota. There are more people on these programs because the HUGE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE caused by the previous republican deregulation policies made millions of people eligible for poverty programs!!! Name one actual policy instituted by Obama that has actually caused any serious peril. Of course you can’t, because there aren’t any. Why not just admit that you are either greedy or a religious nut or a racist (liking H. Cain notwithstanding) and get it over with

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GMQNOW5SLTJX3KCRK5BEXR55DQ yahoo-GMQNOW5SLTJX3KCRK5BEXR55DQ

    you had no idea……..because it doesn’t. his religion does not tell him he is becoming a god.

    where’d you make that up?

  • Doug White

    Not all members of armed services get the tax exemption. It only happens while you are actually deployed in a designated combat zone (i.e. Afghanistan) http://www.armytimes.com/benefits/pay/online_hbml10_otherpay_withholding/

  • Doug White

    If in fact Romney was telling his supporters that “A large percentage of citizens of the U.S.A. no longer want to work and earn their own living” then he is simply a liar. Or he is stupid, since only about 8% of the population actually qualify for that insult. Don’t kid yourself, if you have ever spent ANY time at all with the CEO of a large company, you realize very, very quickly that they do not care one bit about anyone but themselves and their immediate circle of family and friends. I’m sure that Romney actually does believe that he is ‘special’ and not like the ‘moochers’ who make up 47% of the country. He, and many other wealthy people in this country, are sick, evil people.

  • Doug White

    Ray, don’t confuse ‘the deficit’ (how much we lose in one year) with the ‘national debt’ (how much we owe in total over many, many years). The deficit was 1 Trillion when Obama took over, and is still 1 Trillion today. The ‘national debt’ was about 3 Trillion when Obama took office, and admittedly has nearly doubled since then.

  • Doug White

    “Romney speaks the truth all the time”??????? You can NOT be serious! No point in even reading the rest of this, you are simply nuts. Both Romney and Obama lie all the time. they are politicians. The best we can hope for is that their lies are not egregious, as many of Romney’s appear to be.

  • Doug White

    Again with the ‘frightening’…OK, I think we get it Angela. No doubt you cross the street when other ‘frightening’ people like Obama are walking in your direction. You probably get ‘frightened’ when they buy a house in your neighborhood too.

  • Doug White

    Dude, take your medication. Dodd-Frank was passed in July of 2010, MORE THAN ONE YEAR AFTER THE COLLAPSE!!!!! What a load of complete, absolute lying BS!

  • Doug White

    Well, simply put, income in an LLC is not subject to Corporate Tax. It is directly taxed at the lower, personal income rate. In return for that tax break, the LLC owner does have some additional liability should it be determined in court that the company was deliberately causing harm to individuals through fraud or physical harm. So, you don’t avoid both ‘corporate or income tax’ through an LLC, just Corporate Tax. If you are a CPA, I am guessing you already knew that, so I totally don’t get your post. Of course, many of the same people who avoid Corporate Tax by using LLCs also then avoid some of their personal income tax by using other available means, such as charitable deductions, etc. One of the biggest issues in this regard is when the ‘income’ from an LLC is structured to appear as a capital gain (i.e. the ‘shares’ of the LLC partnership gain in value and can be sold to generate income), which of course would then limit the rate on which that income is taxed to 15% currently (20% after 1/1/2013). Again, if you are really a CPA, you must know that also. Also, they can move their profits offshore, to places like Switzerland, the Cayman Island and Somalia….WAIT, not Somalia…DAMN! Can’t believe I almost made it through without mentioning Somalia! Fail!

  • beader9389

    Think about what you’re actually saying (would be easier if you had a better grasp of simple grammar). I’m capitalizing this so you’re absolutely sure you know what I am referring to so you can back up your statement:THERE IS (SIC) 45% OF OUR SOCIETY THAT IS (SIC) LEECHES. BLOOD SUCKERS ON THE PEOPLE WHO DO WORK. I take exception to your statement in that I am on disability (having paid into it for years) AND I work. Otherwise I would be sucking blood from myself and that statement is not only rude and inflammatory and wrong, but it’s really gross.

    And Romney was including recipients of Social Security and our Veterans because he was referring to “entitlement programs” of which SSA and the VA certainly are. The number wouldn’t add up . You just don’t want him to have said what he said. The AARP certainly thought so, I would tend to trust their grasp of the facts better than do yours. But changing facts to fit what one wants to believe is nothing new in politics, or nobody would have anybody to vote for.

    That means Angela, in approximate numbers that half the people you know are leeches. Since I am on disbility due to a stroke caused by medical incompetence I am presumably one of them. Simply because I am collecting Social Security (I guess I am pretty stupid and should have sued so all our insurance rates would go up).

    So, half the people you know. Who is it, you, or your husband? Your mother or your father? Realistically, you probably don’t include any of your own family in the half, so who is it then, which next door neighbor? I’m guessing you consider yourself a good sensible law-abiding Christian, so which half of the pews at your church are filled with “leeches.” Your pastor or his/her spouse? Wait, maybe your entire city consists of the non-leeches! That means what? Little Rock, or which ever city is comparable in size is comprised entirely of leeches?

    Seriously, how can you take a totally made-up number you heard on the news and pass it along like it’s fact and written in stone when you’ve not even considered the reality of what you’re saying. Of course, you’re also saying that half of your political representatives, not of course the ones YOU voted for, but that other half….well that’s no great mystery to guess – it’s the LIBERALS! ALL the liberals you know are leeches. And all the ones you don’t know, too. How to you feel about your logic now?

    If you do, in fact, consider yourself a good Christian, I’d take exception to that too. Good Christian s follow the doctrine that only our Lord is in a position to stand in judgement, that is not our job to do to our fellow man. And your’s is not just a mild judgement of the behavior of your (LEECH) neighbor’s parenting skill. You’ve said to God and everyone else that half the people he has given life to are blood sucking leeches. You think I am a blood sucking leech and you don’t even know me.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Doug White seems slightly prejudiced, or even greatly so. He sees no good in anyone who has been able to make money, but apparently regards highly us who have little. Except he seems also prejudiced against any who don’t agree with Obama’s takeover of the U.S.A. We have an opportunity to oust Obama by our votes this time. It’s not only wealthy people who have good reason to vote against Obama. It’s anyone who loves the U.S.A. Our Muslim president has made us far worse off every day he’s been in office.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Do some feel that Romney is not right in judging that those feeding at the trough of government give-aways are most apt to vote for those in favor of continuing the freebies? I’m sure he was exactly right, though not correct in thinking that it’s already nearly half of us willing to exchange liberty for largess. But he was trying to face facts without fear. Good for Romney!

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    I can’t speak for others, but I know danger when I see it. And this nation is being driven into bankruptcy by the give-aways of Obama and his persecution of honest business people. Obama is simply seeking to ruin us. I’ve been surprised lately to learn that his administration also is fully responsible for the Benghazi deaths. Help was requested. Help was available. Help was denied–on Obama’s orders? And he chose to run to Las Vegas while others at his orders denied help for the ambassador and the three who died with him as martyrs for Obama.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    I’m sure no one is trying to tell you what you heard Romney say in your hearing. Or was he using your ears? Who has a vivid imagination here?

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    In 1929 I was born on planet earth in the nation of Texas. And I see that Romney is offering us badly needed help to clear Obama’s regulations and rules out so that the nation can go to work again. I know what Romney says. He says what he means. And it surely sounds good to hear truth for a change after all Obama has lied to us about, including the help available but denied to those who died in Benghazi lately.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    I’m certainly a serious person, made much more serious by what Obama has done and is doing to the U.S.A. But I’m also 83 years of age and sometimes facts and figures slip my mind. What I’m sure of is that Obama’s acts are making a bad situation worse every day that passes. I’ve been amazed to discover that help was readily available for our ambassador in Benghazi, but by someone’s orders that help was not given. But the massive giveaways of Obama can’t be explained away. That was borrowed money which must be repaid by taxpayers, and it was done by Obama. That much I’m seriously sure of.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    What Romney said is exactly and entirely correct, that folks who learn to depend on Uncle Sam for their daily bread and for rent and for free medical help as needed are apt to vote for ones who promise more of the same. Who can dispute that fact? Some seem to want to deny obvious truth. Romney faces facts. Good for Mitt Romney!

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    What is so frightening is that some still believe Obama’s promises after we can see that he hasn’t kept any of those we believed four years ago. He has made it clear that he hates our liberties and will make us all wards of “the state” if we let him do so. Obama is not a Christian. I doubt that he is a citizen of the U.S.A. And he got enough votes that he walked into the White House without a shred of evidence that he was qualified to do so. He had no respect for the Constitution and Bill of Rights. And he’s not gained any such respect. We need an honest president. I’m for Romney/Ryan.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Romney tells the truth even when it hurts. He will make us a president of whom we can be proud. Obama is a liar and successful only in tearing down what has made this nation great.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    You may indeed know some Republicans who are prejudiced. Most of us are not, but some may be. I happen to not know any such. If I knew them, I’d ask them to reconsider. But I’ve compared the platforms of the Democrat and Republican parties. And I very much prefer the platform which recognizes God and seeks the good of all citizens.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Your accusation is not true at all. Romney and Ryan tell the truth and never intentionally distort truth in any way. I’m glad you didn’t try to give an example, for there are none.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    There should be something we could say that would help Doug White learn how to make friends and influence people. Insulting us isn’t the right way.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    I assert that Romney tells the truth. I see that Obama often lies. If you don’t like truth, Doug, you do well to not read what I write. But your claim that all politicians are as dishonest as we all know Obama is makes little sense. I know well one politician who also helps me with computer needs and is now our representative in Missouri’s House in Jefferson City. An honest man who would never tell a lie. And there are many like him, including Mitt Romney.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Romney was speaking to potential supporters. He stated a truth, mistakenly stating it was 47% of us citizens who would be most apt to vote for the giveaways of Obama. The percentage is no doubt less. He was just stating facts as he saw them and encouraging friends to provide funds to reach the others who are not eating at the federal trough. What’s wrong is the attempt to defeat Romney by telling everyone what his estimate was at that time of the opposition he would face. No, that’s not everyone’s business. And those who recorded what he said and then shared the recording with everyone was out of place and doing something that was inexcusable among honest people.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    This Democrat propaganda has no basis in fact. Republicans are not in any way responsible for the Obama recession. It was Democrats in both Senate and House who created the bubble which then burst. The Republican-led House has simply refused to go along with further foolishness proposed by Obama. They have prevented some of the bad things the president wanted to do with Congressional approval, but the president has gone ahead and created laws which couldn’t pass either the Senate or the House.

  • joeybot

    There are lists and lists of Romney’s lies. Here’s one that links to like 600 of them. Now do I think they are all lies? No, some may be sort of true, some may him getting facts wrong…but some are straight up lies.

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09/08/mitt-romney-616-lies-in-33-weeks/

    I mean…remember the Republican debates where every one of them were saying that Mitt was a liar and would say anything to get into office? Were all of them lying then?

  • Frechette

    During the debate on Monday Romney claimed Iran needs Syria to have access to the sea. Now any high school kid in the great state of Texas knows Iran doesn’t have a common border with Syria. Tell me Ray when was the Persian Gulf paved over? Doesn’t your hero the Flip Flopper realize that the Southern part of Iran has a coast line with the Persian Gulf and the Arabian Sea. Or is that not part of his job description? Then he claimed that when he was Governor of the People’s Republic of Massachusetts, as Texans would say, he was responsible for overhauling the school system so that our students became first in Math and Science. Another lie! That happenend under the previous administration of Governor Weld.
    How long are you going to keep lying for the Liar in Chief?

  • beader9389

    First of all the EIC (Earned Income Credit) if for those who work at near-poverty level wages NOT decent wages and are supporting one or more dependents you have. The credit is limited by how much you do make and how many dependents you have. Stricter rules for what constitutes a dependent also apply. Instead of changing the tax table, the credit was introduced to equalize net wages for the people who truly qualify. For instance, and this is approximate, a family of 4 living on an approximate $35,000 salary would get a tax credit of about $2800. Only wages are counted, so if someone was on Social Security Disability and earned and managed to earn $600 per month delivering pizza, the credit would be calculated on the $7200 in earned income, not on the Social Security benefit. As for the child tax credit, that only applies to the amounr spendt on day care expenses so a parent can work. And it’s a small percentage of the day care ependiture. The other way it can be done is for employers to withhold from gross wages the amount spent on day care, and the employee is then reimburse from his one money what he spent on day care. In other words, the point of both (you can’t do both, one or the other) is that you are paying dependent care expenses with money you haven’t been taxed on. There is a similar tax break for uninsured medical expenses, you can put asside pre-tax dollars to used for expenses not covered by your health care insurance. In both programs, there is a ceiling on the amount you can put aside.
    In other words, “those people” pay taxes, they are just allowed to pay dependent care and uninsured medical care expenses with pre-tax dollars.

    I agree with your assertion, other than the fact that most people getting EIC are far far away from making a decent wage.

  • beader9389

    What I see is one platform that parades itself on it’s Godliness (a big no-no for the truly Godly, the true Christian is not pride-ful nor boastful); you are saying that the other platform is Godless? As in there are no Christain (or other) Democrats? That is truly a lie. I know for a fact that there are brands of both in both parties at my church. Not that it should matter, ever hear the one about separation of church and state? When you have religion mixed up with politics it’s a slippery slope to a country where religious freedom no longer exists.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Vanhoosier/1627051101 James Vanhoosier

    so it’s all right to lie to people he knows in order to get money from them.when was the last time you donated to a good cause out side of a church

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Vanhoosier/1627051101 James Vanhoosier

    national debt clock in 2008 was 10.4 trillion. it is not hard to find what it was. type national debt 2008

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Vanhoosier/1627051101 James Vanhoosier

    yes clinton passed a republican bill called nafta [look up who voted] nafta is north american free trade not china trade.but since mexico could not hold their end of the deal up.people like romney said the door is open we will go to china. greed. regan lowered corp. taxes from 70% to50% than 28%. raised taxes on the middle class numerous times and ways. loss of deductions.when he left he had doubled the national debt . reganomics wikapedea. taxes after ww 2 was 90% and we had a good recovery .

  • Jetstar99999

    The Earned Income Tax Credit in fact results in many paying ZERO TAXES – neither Federal Income Tax or (on a net basis) Payroll Taxes – as EITC generally offset whatever payroll taxes have been paid in.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    You may think it’s all right to lie. I don’t. You accuse Romney of lying. I say he did no such thing. It’s none of your business to whom I donate money or if I ever do so. Why do you ask? I will point out that though I have very little money I have donated some to Romney’s campaign and to the Republican party in recent months. But that’s none of your business.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    9389 apparently doesn’t read to understand anything. I’m accused of saying no Democrat is a Christian. What I clearly said was the platform which the Democrat Party adopted this year makes no mention of God and when the delegates were asked to return to the platform the ONE mention it had made in previous years, the delegates then on the floor very obviously were not in favor of doing so.

    You may suppose there’s no difference between what the party stands for and what some members of the party stand for. But that platform states what the leaders of the party stand for and what they want those who run as Democrats to stand for. God is. You apparently don’t know about Him, but He knows all about you. God also knows that Islam is an enemy of the Lord Jesus and of all Jews and seeks our death.

    It’s strange that in this land of liberty and freedom of religion you seem to hate us who love God and seek to serve Him. We’ll do so regardless, of course, and we’ll be thrilled that men and women who love God are willing to serve the nation as part of the Republican party. Anyone running as a Democrat this year is part of a party which is godless by choice. If they in fact are Christian, they should switch to the party where Christianity and religion is respected.

  • Vicki S

    Succinctly put- well-said.

  • Vicki S

    I’m sorry, Angela- the percentage quoted does, indeed, include the military. He wanted to make the excuse that if 47% voted for Obama, then all of them are in the handout classification.

  • Vicki S

    Well-said, Doug! I am a devout LDS, but Romney is an insult to the teachings. And this person likes Ryan whose budget plan offended the Pope, himself! A group of NUNS got together to protest it!! Some Christian!

    Ryan believes, as Mourdock does, that if a woman is raped and made pregnant- even by her FATHER- even if it isn’t a woman, but a 14-year-old- although the rape is horrible God meant the pregnancy to happen so the victim is not only to be forced to carry the child (which could drive her insane or to suicide) but there is to be no allowance of termination even if it’s just a few days after the event. From what I’ve read, there isn’t supposed to be the use of a “morning-after pill either- because it might thrwart God’s will should she actually be pregnant! I think these people are mixing up Satan with God.

  • Vicki S

    Ray- do you glean all your info from Right-wing sites or just 99.9% of it?

  • Vicki S

    Joey, Romney can’t even spell “truth”! Good gravy!

    Love his latest in Ohio a few days ago– when he told people while stumping that there were negotiations going on right at the time to ship the Jeep US jobs to China. Maybe you haven’t heard or read about the response from the company- they not only responded that this wasn’t true, that they had even added 1100 jobs in the Detroit Jeep factory, they lambasted Romney (without actually mentioning his name) of misreading Bloomberg and playing politics, causing consternation for those who heard him- or about this.

    In my 73 years on Planet Earth I have never seen the degree of lying by ANY other candidate- Dem or Republican- to match this man’s! He can’t even tell the truth about his first name, for corn’s sakes- saying it’s Mitt when it’s Willard. He went out of his way to emphasize this- compulsive lying maybe, along with the non -compulsive.

    Why don’t you google his connections to Phillip Morriswhile at Bain (which he also lied about leaving in 1992- there is proof that he was still in charge in 1994)- see what Bain and he did re promoting cigarettes so effectively in Russia (after the USSR breakup) that not only was there a huge increase in smoking, at this time 400,000 Russians a year die from smoke-related illnesses! Just google “Bain Romney tobacco Russia”. And see how after touring a really bad sweatshop factory- 20,000 employees- he invested in it. Lovely conditions- 12 teen girls per room, triple bunks, 10-hr 6-day weeks, barbed wire enclosure, guards in towers. It’s an appliance manufacturer- included Hamilton Beach among others. It’s late at night and I’ve forgotten the name of the company- very big.

    There is so much more…

  • Vicki S

    Joey, I’m a Dem and I know Obama has his weaknesses- it’s just that I consider Romney an abomination. Although I disagree with Huntsman on a lot, he is an honorable man- a fellow-LDS. It doesn’t take much to see that Romney is not on his favorites list.

  • Vicki S

    Frechette- remember when he cut Medicaid care to 20 days in the hospital no matter how severe the illness or injury? Wonder how many deaths that caused.
    His major slashes hit the disabled, and unmoneyed seniors. The only reason he tried to do anything re insurance for the poor was that the Fed Govt was refusing to give MA something around $500 mil if the state didn’t do something.

  • Vicki S

    Ray- I am dead serious when I say that “truth” and “Romney” are oxymorons. I did NOT say truth and Republicans are such!

  • Vicki S

    Doc- seriously- scientific tests have been done with liberals and Conservatives- the brains are different: the Conservatives are rigid and don’t like change. It is a virtual impossibility to get them to look at things differently. There are catalysts that change some of them, but it pretty-much takes an ephiphany.

  • Vicki S

    Ray- Obamacare was a national ROMNEYCARE in MA! And one trillion? Where in the world did you get that from? You have GOT to be kidding!

    Obama HAD to run the debt up trying to save things- read what honest economists say would have happened without the auto bailouts! I am not talking about right-wing propaganda- but genuine economists who are honest in their computations!

  • Vicki S

    Allow me to introduce a new saying: “My mind’s made up, don’t confuse me with facts!”

  • Vicki S

    phylpp- I thought that of him, too, but I think that his age and some admitted memory problems- together with his conservative bent is causing him to come to certain conclusions. He doesn’t seem to come across anywhere as offensive as so many right-wingers do. I could be wrong, but I think he would be open to admitting points were true if he researched them. He doesn’t strike me now as someone who would continue to obfuscate if the truth were presented. The problem is the conservatives tend to stick to specific sites and not look at anything that might contradict what is said there. I might like MSNBC but I hardly derive my political positions from watching that station and when I hear kudos for our side or accusations about the other, I make a serious attempt to find impartial sources to get at the truth. Of course no one can be 100% objective unless he’s had a lobotomy. LOL

  • Vicki S

    Chris- wanna bet she’s watched the Obama 2016 film and believes it? This isn’t a person you can reason with- it’s impossible. Nobody who KNOWS anything about Mitt Romney could call him “a breath of fresh air”; what in the world is she talking about? Does she have any idea how many REPUBLICANS despise him? She will believe anything any right wing commentator will say- and you can bet she NEVER looks at the other side to get any kind of balance. I don’t think this is the case with Ray, however.

  • Vicki S

    Ray- where in the world do you get the idea that Romney is honest? Do you ever check to verify what he says? Do you realize that Gingrich was probably the first person to actually accuse another politician of lying? They always used other words- “spin, misinformation”- but not the word “liar”; that’s why that reporter interviewing Gingrich was taken aback- he couldn’t believe he’d used the word.

    Why don’t you check what I stated above- google what Romney said a few days ago in Ohio- the blatant lie that Jeep was negotiating to ship US jobs to China. This is just one of literally dozens of lies he’s told. Ray, if you consider yourself to be honest- why don’t you look at answers to your accusations- check out several sources.

    Romney said he did NOT intend to create a 5 trillion $ tax cut- said his plans would close loopholes/deductions and be revenue neutral. Then, when confronted with a genuine study that showed this was impossible- that there couldn’t be a 20% tax cut that could do this even if every deduction were trashed- he stated that there were 6 independent studies contradicting this- read what those so-called “independent studies” consisted of; are you aware that Chris Wallace of Fox News took him apart on this, for corn’s sakes? His “studies” consisted of 2 blogs by one of his own people 4 other blog entries, and 2 by right-wingers- I believe one of these was also one of his people.

    A max of FOUR PER CENT tax cut would equal all deductions being lost.

    A breath of fresh air? A man who told an LDS pregnant girl who was in jeopardy of losing her life because of blood clots that if she had an abortion (as her doctor had urged) “Why should you have it that easy? Other women don’t have it that easy”? He went to her house and confronted her with this and her father threw him out and told him never to talk to his daughter again. What about his former tobacco ties_ or his investment in China where he had actually toured the sweat shop factory? He isn’t a breath of fresh air- he is a stench in the nostrils of decent people. How many deaths did he contribute to with his tobacco-pushing in Russia??

  • Vicki S

    Ray- the 47% was absolutely erroneous! It included the overseas military, veterans. those on social security THEY EARNED and others who worked hard for years but whose incomes weren’t high enough to pay income tax (they pay PLENTY of other taxes)! He accepted CORPORATE WELFARE over and over again while with Bain- and if you are honest you will check exactly what he did while at Bain- his successes and the strategies that allowed bankruptcies by the companies while he and his fellow-executives took huge salaries and bonuses. Are you familiar with leveraged buyouts? Learn about 4 of his companies’ bankruptcies;

    He’s truthful? Remember his saying that he’d been in business for 25 years but it was news to him that there were any tax breaks for sending business/jobs overseas? Ray, for grief’s sakes, the biggest tax break is that NO TAXES whatsoever are due until the money comes into the US and he puts his money in the Cayman Islands and elsewhere- which allows him to purchase whatever he wants outside of the country and make other investments.

    He wants to abolish capital gains tax- do you know what that is, Ray? It’s money made through investments. Most wealthy people’s incomes come mainly from investments- many exclusively from these. So- many, many rich people would wind up paying NO INCOME TAX WHATEVER- ZERO! Now who do you think would wind up paying income?? -

    !tax? WAGE-EARNERS!!

  • Paid_Attention

    Uh, sir? I refer you to the MIlitary Commissions Act, wherein any person in the United States, citizen or not, could be held without trial or able to confront their accusers. That was signed by 43 and represented the greatest infringement on the US Constitution since the internment camps of the 1940′s. I am eager to hear what you consider “no respect for the Consitution and Bill of Rights”. I am REALLY eager to understand your critieria for an “honest president” when you suggest that Gov Romney and Rep Ryan are your outcome of applying those criteria. If Gov Romney is so honest, why are there no tax returns? If Rep Ryan is so honest, why won’t he call his Medicare plan a voucher AND admit that the same Medicare savings that President has claimed are in his budget too!

  • Paid_Attention

    Oh stop, it hurts! So your list of “several good candidates” includes: Michelle “I hate Arabs” Bachmann, RIck “Why won’t anyone like me” Santorum, Herman “999 is for pizza” Cain, Rick “Memory is a liberal conspiracy” Perry, Ron “I’m not crazy y’all” Paul, and Newt “Moon bases for me and my 3rd wife” Gingrich, and what the GOP got out of that is MITT ROMNEY.

    Seriously, when are you starting to write for Saturday Night Live?

  • Frechette

    Vicki S thanks for pointing those facts out to me. They had completely slipped my mind. Bless you.

  • Frechette

    Wrong! Paul Ryan, a right wing nut if ever there was, one is a disciple of Ayn Rand’s. Her philosophy is everyone for himself or herself the rest of society be damned. When she was old and destitute however she had no problem collecting Social Security and using Medicare when she required it. Question, why should my tax dollars have been used to keep this bitch comfortable but now if I’m no longer able to work implement her crack pot philosophy on the rest of us? Carried to the extreme Romney plans to dismantle public schools, public roads, regulations on banks, the FAA, the EPA, Medicare, Social Security, etc. because the free market does these things so much better. If you want to enrich the insurance companies be my guest but leave the rest of us out.

  • Dencal26

    While Romney could have clarified his statement better his overall analysis is correct. More and more Americans are not paying federal income tax. What happens when its 52% or 55% or 60%? We are on a dangerous path. Payroll taxes which cover the entitlements are running short as well. America is on a road which ends with a financial cliff we are headed for.

  • Dencal26

    Doug
    What Deregulation? Clinton deregulated Banks in 1999. Bush passed Sarbanes Oxley which is perhaps the toughest corporate regulatory law in history

  • Dencal26

    Bush spent like a Drunken Sailor. Obama spends like a Drunken NAVY

  • reenilou

    I don’t think of a gaffe as “truth.” I think of it as an “inelegant” blunder. Which this certainly was.

  • joeybot

    Not by anything I’ve looked at…if you have great links, throw them up and I’l look at them. The problem is that because the deficit is so great, people assume that’s because Obama is going crazy with spending. No…he didn’t DECREASE spending and now because we’re in this recession, less money is coming in. He did increase a little, but not the way people seem to claim. I mean, was he going to gut all the stuff Bush set up, the huge increases in Medicare and such?

    http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/obamas-spending-inferno-or-not/

  • joeybot

    I also liked Huntsman a lot. Unfortunately in this climate, he’s the kind of guy who could never get the nomination by Republicans.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Thomas-Nighthawk/100000751822653 Thomas Nighthawk

    Drunken sailors stop spending when they run out of money.
    Bush set records in deficit spending that Obama has now shattered.

  • MHWashDc

    I didn’t make it up, I learned about in my LDS education. It’s called “Eternal Progression.” Look it up. http://www.mormondoctrine.net/articles/eternal_progression.htm

    First, you have to understand that Romney and all Mormons believe that this God… notice I said “this God,” because there are others, we just worship this one, lots more though… so this God was once a man like us and he “progressed” to become a God. Again, it’s called “Eternal Progression,” and we don’t like to talk about it much as it’s completely at odds with Christianity. All moral Mormon men in good standing with the LDS Church and make it up to the highest Kingdom hope to achieve this one day. Then we can have a Celestial wife, potentially multiple wives and have what we call sprit children, which will be born into our world. Mormons believe souls pre-exist before conception, Christians believe it starts at conception. See you were once a spirit child. I know it seems quite odd compared to traditional Christianity, but that’s because it is very different. Mormons believe that after the resurrection of Jesus, the Church fell away, immediately, and all religions… ALL other religions are an abomination in God’s eyes – that’s Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, etc… all are a complete abomination… not just in LDS eye’s, but God’s eye’s… you see Mormons are taught that God told that directly to Joseph Smith, the founder of the LDS Church.

  • Mike Crary

    False?? You must be refering to the Reagan quote… because obviously if we are checking facts the rest of Frechette’s post is true…

  • Dencal26

    The chart speaks for itself. We understand the 2009 spike caused b TARP and Stimulus. Problem is the 18% Spike continued for the next 3 yrs. Look at the chart you posted.

  • joeybot

    Right, but their summary was this:

    “The truth is that the nearly 18 percent spike in spending in fiscal 2009
    — for which the president is sometimes blamed entirely — was mostly due
    to appropriations and policies that were already in place when Obama
    took office.”

    Bush enacted a lot of new big programs. Unless those programs are wiped out, they still have to be paid for. So that increase that happened under Bush isn’t going away under Obama. And it won’t under Romney either, unless he gets rid of those programs. Maybe he can make the 18% up by wiping out OTHER stuff, but regardless, if nothing is done that amount is going to be spent. That’s the problem with government, every guy gets into office and creates some programs and they never go away.

  • Dencal26

    Actually fiscal year 2009 is not written in stone. Obama and the Pelosi Congress passed supplemental spending to the 2009 budget after he took office. TARP was a one time expenditure of 700 Billion dollars. It did not repeat in fiscal years 2010,2011 or 2012. And most of TARP has been repaid.

  • joeybot

    I’m not saying Obama didn’t add anything, he definitely did, as all presidents do. But what about No Child Left Behind and Bush’s additions to Medicare among the gigantic stuff like Homeland Security that Bush enacted and Obama is still paying for?

    I think Obama gets tagged as a big spender when you compare to GDP. Of course, because even if he didn’t add ANYTHING, the GDP went down a lot because of the recession, thereby increasing government spending vs GDP. And you don’t have to add a dollar to do that…they have to cut. But look at the graph, see the spikes every year under Bush? And then how it sort of levels off? And the article itself is really good at pointing out the actual spending.

  • Dencal26

    Those were added long before 2009. The deficit after those were added was low.
    For 2007, the budget deficit totaled $162 billion, a five-year low. However, the slowing economy is expected to stunt the growth of tax revenues while the $168 billion economic stimulus plan passed by Congress last week will swell the deficit. NCLB and Homeland Security were already enacted.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-3822385.html

  • joeybot

    The CBO was calling for a trillion dollar deficit before Obama ever got into office, based on Bush spending.

    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9957/01-07-outlook.pdf

    Now, they also say that the deficit should be shrinking…it’s not, but that seems to be because of the economy not getting better. Did you read the factcheck article? They actually go through what Obama added to the budget.

  • Dencal26

    2009 had many one time expenses such as the 240 Billion take over of Fannie and Freddie and TARP. But these should not have been repeated in fiscal years beyond 2009. Also portions of the Obama stimulus are included in the Bush 2009 budget. I believe 175Billion of it.

  • Robert_13

    You just did exactly what Doug asked you not to do. You just spouted more nonsense from politicians you like for whatever goofball reason. Your preferred politicians actually know better, but also know they can sucker you. Economic policy takes about four years on average to take effect. Blaming any first term president for economic conditions during that term is like blaming that president for the dark after sunset.

    Bush screwed up. The Republicans put him there as their ignorant little puppet and never complained about the wars he put on the government credit card. Cheney used to repeat like a mantra that the mounting government debt was not a problem and we heard not one peep from most “conservatives”. A few short months before Obama took office the consequences barely start hitting the fan except for the major banks. Then the heavy stuff starts getting down to the average citizen’s level about the time Obama takes office in all these morons want to blame him.

    Whenever you or anyone else votes for an incumbent of whatever party on the basis of his/her economic record, your are voting on the basis of irrelevant data. Period. End of story. If you really want to know the truth, just do a little research of your own on this one point. I would put money on your failing to do any such research because you want to continue to think what you already think and accept only what “information” helps you keep on thinking what you already think.

  • Robert_13

    “Our Muslim president” says all I need to know about your brains and its ability to think critically, vet information intelligently, or use valid reasoning processes (if indeed you use any at all).

  • Robert_13

    There are plenty of well-documented sources of this kind of information. You don’t need me. Go do a little serious, objective research of your own if you dare to challenge your own thinking. Maybe you’re a small business owner? Maybe you have no clue about the military-industrial complex Republican president Eisenhower discovered belatedly toward the end of his administration and warned us about way back then, Now I suppose you consider that a leftist term just as “sea-level rise” has been outlawed here in the North Carolina legislature’s discussion as a “leftist term”. Gosh, I guess if the sea level does indeed rise, the commies have won? Dang!

    Oh, here are some answers to your question to jump start the probably for you non-starter “objective research” I recommended you to do. The arms industry in this country gets ALL its money from YOU and ME, babe! They make often more than a factor of ten times more money during war than during peace and believe me, they lobby for war. Banks make tons of money from the tons of little people’s bank accounts, so how much of that do we get? It’s a matter of public record that the biggest banks spent years deliberately suckering people with fraudulent mortgage advice. It made a ton of money based on an attitude of “we’ll be gone with the money by the time it hits the fan”. Then these very people rewarded themselves with huge bonuses, you know, the ones who bankrupted a couple of banks and would have done that to a lot more without the bailouts.

    So what happened to your memory of the news we were hearing every day toward the end of the Bush years? You know, what about the banks around the world that were all tied together and there was a domino effect starting to take effect and the major banks were meeting with the government all night to try to stop it? They decided not to bail out one bank and it went under and was about to cause a world-wide financial disaster of much greater magnitude than the one we’ve been experiencing? You have no clue! Why do you think you do? Because fatso limbo said so? He makes his living off of you suckers just like the politicians you like do.

  • Robert_13

    So you expect everything in an investment portfolio to be a winner? Solyndra is a drop in the bucket of a very successful program to stimulate green energy. If you’re still in denial about climate change, go back to your sand box and bury your head in it.

  • Robert_13

    Yeah, I’ve had the same experience. My father used to quote this:

    “A man convinced against his will

    is of the same opinion still.

    RT, you probably already know this, but most voters have no clue at all regarding the facts that should rightly bear on a voting decision. They usually adopt a political ideology that helps them fit into their preferred social environment and mindlessly adopt and repeat whatever that environment prefers to think. It has nothing to do with reality or anything remotely resembling it. That’s why all the facts and valid reasoning in the world won’t work with them. Their minds quite simply don’t operate that way and don’t care either. They think what makes them comfortable. The first casualty is the truth. It’s like war. The first casualty is the truth.

  • Robert_13

    Passer by, please note that Downen has failed to reply to my reply because he can’t. To rebut what I’ve said here, he would have to deal with facts he doesn’t even want to know about. Of course, he can always come back repeating what he already thinks he knows with no support or genuine facts anywhere in the neighborhood. The stuff I’ve said in this reply is a matter of public record, but these people don’t go by facts that are a matter of public record unless they cherry pick pieces of the facts that seem to support their views if removed sufficiently far from their context.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Time is fleeting. Some days I invest time in responding and writing to studies such as this one. Other days I do what needs to be done. I had a full schedule before I began writing some to blogs. I’m way behind in caring for e-mails now. But the facts are so well established that I see no need to list them for Robert. I know what I know. Obama is a Muslim and has acted as best he could to ruin the U.S.A. so it could fall victim to Islamic rulers to whom he chooses to bow while representing the U.S.A. as our elected president. We’ve never had a worse president than Obama. We are blessed to be able tomorrow to vote for an honest and patriotic man to replace Obama in the White House.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    Robert imagines that any patriotic citizen would refuse support to our ambassador in Benghazi. If there was any doubt prior to that episode, it surely can’t exist now. But it was only the last of a long line of actions for Islam and against Jews and Christians by Obama.

  • http://missionoutreach.org Ray Downen

    If I did what Doug didn’t want me to do, that’s life. He wants me to talk nice about the dirty work done by Obama and pretend it was actually good. No thanks. Robert assumes I know little since I disagree with the Democrat propaganda he shares. He figures if I’d just read the junk he reads, I’d agree with it. But what I want to read is the truth and I observe that little said by Obama is true. His decision that the ambassador in Benghazi must die when we had plenty of available help to prevent it is just the final straw in proving the Obama is indeed a Muslim and an enemy of the U.S.A.

  • Robert_13

    That’s not what he asked for at all, silly! You’re making up what you want to about what he asked for or just can’t read straight what others write, so you’re absolutely without any integrity or an utterly clueless dingbat. Take your choice or both of the above.

  • Robert_13

    Some people here have soup for brains. Remember that Ryan told that silly woman that smart people will never vote for him. He’s absolutely right most of the time. There is a very important exception, though. Some people are smart like a fox. They vote for the ones who shovel our money into their pockets. These pay politicians and ads to sucker the ignorant goofballs who blindly swallow their propaganda campaigns and help these con artists mess us all over. So smart people get slammed by the fools suckered by the con artists smart people would never vote for.

  • Robert_13

    How much do you really know about how government functions? What makes you think Obama had anything at all to do with that? Have you ever heard of micromanagement? You think anyone who micromanages would make a good president? Do you think it’s even possible for a president of the U.S.A. to micromanage? So where to you get this garbage? You just take a few facts, make them fit what you already want to think, and then call it proof? Man! You are a piece of work!

  • Robert_13

    The entitled ones are the top 0.01% who run the arms industry. They get paid with money that is 100% YOURS and MINE! They lobby for war whether there’s any need for it or not. Then they con your insecure little butts with fear and talk about national security into voting for someone who wants to give billions more to them. Makes you feel safer while they create more incentive for terrorists to recruit tons of jihadists who make us all less safe. Meanwhile they laugh all the way to the bank with your sucker money. They don’t have to worry because they can buy all the personal security they want to and most people have no idea who they are in the first place.

  • Robert_13

    You just state your beliefs as facts with no convincing evidence or arguments and expect everyone to just accept it all because you said it and you think it’s all obviously true. So tell us exactly what makes you think it’s all so obviously true. You don’t back up anything you say except to regurgitate what your favorite talk show hosts or politicians say.

    So what haflway intelligent person thinks that works to get at the truth? You have no clue how the world actually works, do you? You just paste together what others you happen to want to believe say and spit it out as the truth. So how do you pretend to know what you think you know? Talk to us about that in very specific terms. Get some real information from independent sources and use valid reasoning to draw your conclusions.

    Also, if you think our facts are wrong, then show us where our information is doubtful and/or where our reasoning is invalid. Just contradicting us with your beliefs doesn’t cut any mustard. It does absolutely nothing to bring out the truth about anything.

  • Robert_13

    Religious “fundamentalism” is a grave misnomer, since its adherents raise petty issues to fundamental status and ignore the true fundamentals like the Golden Rule. I notice that Christian fundamentalists don’t pay much attention to the Golden Rule at the international level. I guess they think it only applies domestically here in the U.S.A.

    However, what we call fundamentalism, whether Christian or Muslim, is the great evil in the world today. I believe in God and pray every day, but I’m not a fundamentalist. Every brand of religious fundamentalism thinks it has a unique handle on the truth. They even kill each other over this idea. They deserve each other. Maybe they’ll do us all a favor and eliminate each other.

  • Robert_13

    Not only that. Romney named a variety of demographic populations as belonging to the “47%”. The different populations he labeled don’t even correspond to all the same people, so they can’t be logically lumped into a single percentage value of the whole population. It was really dumb stuff he was saying just to appeal to the arrogance and exceptionalism of the narcissistic elite who attended that super-dumb event.

    What really takes the cake is the poor suckers they exploit remain completelty blind to this and buy that he merely “misspoke”. Then these simpletons vote for him and his cronies to keep them in power and suckering everyone. He didn’t misspeak. Nothing could be more obvious. He was caught with his pants down feeding bovine fecal matter to rich folks to stroke their egos and justify their selfish games.

  • Alan

    Just because it’s called “entitlement” doesn’t mean you didn’t earn it. Part of that 47% is Social Security recipients (otherwise the math doesn’t add up, there aren’t enough other people not paying Federal taxes).
    If you can’t see how that statement by Romney was insulting to a large swath of the country then you truly are stupid.

  • sawtooth

    I Wonder, “is the economy so $#^%& up that the middle class has run out of money and now the president and world bankers are going after the semi wealthy to pay the taxes and the debts of our country and the world, because there isn’t anyone else. My question is, how did the “semi wealthy” allow this to happen? Is it because they were so busy getting money from the pig trough they themselves could not see what the end result was going to be like?

  • Cadre

    “A smaller percentage of household income comes from wages than ever before. Food stamps, Medicaid, unemployment benefits, disability benefits, Social Security…” No kidding, Pal. 400 individuals, whose income derives almost entirely from investment income, rather than wages, have as much wealth as the bottom 150 Million American citizens. That IS a problem…

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